Find Ancestors

Hi Sylvia of Canada Long time no write I have found William Buglar m. Hannah Ann steward 1794 bermondsey daughter Mary Ann b. 1796 of grange rd Southwark he was a leather dresser there is a Mary Chambers dying in work house aged abt 77 in 1861, I am more sure now that she was a Buglar not Mayor do you agree your comment would be appreciated kind . Regards Graham N.Z

Hi sylvia.well being an assistant to a school master to a leather dresser seems a bit far fetched,I must be up the wrong tree again! kind regards Graham NZ

Out of interest, I followed John F Stansbury in 1851.

On the 1851 Census, he was Curate of Luton (I think that's the place), and Master of a School in Oundle, Northamptonshire .......................


so, the idea that it was a school in 1841 is a valid one.


If it is YOUR William Chambers in 1841, then he was acting as a school master.

Hi Graham


I think this is the William you asked about??? .............


1841 Census

Name: William Chambers
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1820
Gender: Male

Civil Parish: Kingston
Hundred: Kingston (First Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration District: Kingston
Sub-registration District: Kingston
Neighbors: View others on page

John D Bailey 12 b. Surrey, Pupil
Charley Montague b. Surrey, 8 Mo
Thomas Phillipson 16 b. Surrey, Pupil
Charles B Ince 14 b. not in Surrey, Pupil
Andrew A Ly Cog 13 b. Foreign, Pupil
James N Layton 13 b. Surrey, Pupil
James Bailey 9 b. Surrey, Pupil
Thomas C Britten 11 b. not in Surrey, Pupil
William Chambers 21b. not in Surrey, Assistant

Address:- Norbiton Street, M.B., Chapel (or Chapple) House


On the previous page of the census, it shows the remaining residents of Chapple House ...............


Name: John F Stansbury
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1805
Gender: Male
Where born: Foreign Parts

Civil Parish: Kingston
Hundred: Kingston (First Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration District: Kingston
Sub-registration District: Kingston

John F Stansbury 36 b.ca 1805, Foreign Parts, Clergyman
Sophia Eliza S Stansbury 34 b.ca 1807, not in county
John Adolphus 7 b.ca 1834, Surrey
William Price 6 b.ca 1835, Surrey
Eleanor Wheelwright 3 b.ca 1838, Surrey
Marian Layton 2 b.ca 1839, Surrey

Address:- Chapple House



If you put the two lots of residents together, this is what you get ......

John F Stansbury 36 b.ca 1805, Foreign Parts, Clergyman
Sophia Eliza S Stansbury 34 b.ca 1807, not in county
John Adolphus 7 b.ca 1834, Surrey
William Price 6 b.ca 1835, Surrey
Eleanor Wheelwright 3 b.ca 1838, Surrey
Marian Layton 2 b.ca 1839, Surrey
ohn D Bailey 12 b. Surrey, Pupil
Charley Montague b. Surrey, 8 Mo
Thomas Phillipson 16 b. Surrey, Pupil
Charles B Ince 14 b. not in Surrey, Pupil
Andrew A Ly Cog 13 b. Foreign, Pupil
James N Layton 13 b. Surrey, Pupil
James Bailey 9 b. Surrey, Pupil
Thomas C Britten 11 b. not in Surrey, Pupil
William Chambers 21b. not in Surrey, Assistant


so it appears to be a mix of private school, and a place where babies are cared for.

Note that there are male and female babies, but only boys as pupils.

William is an Assistant ............... probably, at a guess, an Assistant School Master.


I also note that there are both variant spellings of Chapple vs Chapel ...... probably linked as much to the enumerator's idea of spelling as to anything else!!!

Hi! sylvia, as I said ,with regards william chambers b.abt 1819/1820.I foundhim in the 1841 census age 21at a place called mb.chapel house norbiton kingston on thames, in a list of young to old single people,hence the thought of a orphanage? it seems to have a church connection,i can not be sure whether I obtained it on genesreunited of on ancestry at the local library kind regards Graham N.Z

Hi Graham


I'm sorry, I missed this posting of yours .................. I can't find that William Chambers,

can you give me some more information, please?

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1325063

hi Sylviacanada the address you mention for william stephen chambers d.1872 is 114 spa st bermondsey.I have found a william chambers in 1841 census,at mbchapel house norbiton kingston,I thought this address was miles from lambeth, but it is not,his age is right ,could he be in a orphanage or poorhouse and stephen and mary(buglar) chambers dead,this could explain their absence from future records,I would love your opinion kind regards graham chambers N.Z.

Hi Sylvia,I note that you said mary buglar can be traced further back than stephen, my wife christine,s mothers maiden name was lester,a george lesterb.1848 married a mary buglar b.abt 1850 in bridport,so you can see my inrest in the buglar name(related?) regards Graham Chambers N.Z.

you're very welcome!!

Hi! Sylvia, Thank you all for all your help,I shall keep trying along the track you have given me Kind regards Graham Chambers N..Z.

Graham

at some point, as we get back beyond censuses and bmd records, we all have to make assumptions that what we have found is accurate.

In my case. I and others have got back to 1740 when a marriage took place in Buckinghamshire.

The bride can be traced even further back in the Parish Records ............... but the husband, who is the one we are all interested in, apparently dropped out of an alien space ship!

There is just no trace of him anywhere before that marriage date.

The surname is found in Cornwall, but the forename is not there. There have been suggestions that he might be connected to Brittany in France.

We all keep trying, and getting nowhere!!

I think in your case, that you are safe enough in making the assumptions that you have.



sylvia

Hi! Sylvia, I tend to agree with you, william stephen/mary(hobbs) chambers are the parents of william stephen b.1843 bermondsey as I can track my great grandfathers widow Sarah Jane into the census 1901 living in catford with my grandfather,therefore at william stephen christening 1820 the father is signed stephen not william,therefore mary buglar not major,or is it dangerous to presume that, it is correct,that he could have come from anywhere in the 4 corners of the union(uk) Kind regards Graham Chambers N.Z.

Graham ..............

it's a hard one to answer!

There is definitely a marriage for Stephen Chambers to Mary Buglar in 1817

There is definitely a baptism for William Stephen Chambers on 27 Feb 1820, and it looks as though his birth date was4 October 1819. Parents Stephen Chambers and Mary

Remember I said that I could not read the date of birth because it was in the fold of the Parish Register? This is the baptism from familysearch ........................


William Stephen Chambers, "England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"

Name: William Stephen Chambers
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 27 Feb 1820
Christening Place: ST GEORGE THE MARTYR, SOUTHWARK, LONDON, ENGLAND
Birth Date: 04 Oct 1819
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Stephen Chambers
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C02244-2
System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 307692, 307693
Reference ID:



There is undoubtedly a marriage for a William Chambers and a Mary Major on 19 Feb 1815 at St George the Martyr, Southwark. Again, no fathers names on the Register

Note that the register image for them does say William and Mary ......... no second names for either of them

There is NOT apparently, that I can find, a birth of a William Chambers (let alone William Stephen) to a William Chambers and a Mary


The problem I have is that I cannot find a birth for Mary Buglar ................. Buglar appears to be common in parts of Dorset. Nor can I find out where she came from


Did William Stephen's mother move from Dorset to London??? Possible! There was a lot more movement around the country for our ancestors than we imagine!


Have you found any of them on the 1841 Census????



so my gut feeling is that you are safe in believing that Stephen Chambers married Mary Buglar, and that they are the parents of William Stephen Chambers born 1819 in London.


I might be persuaded to leave a 5-10% possibility of being wrong .......... and thus keeping your eye open for possible other records coming on line




sylvia

Hi! everyone, thank you all for the info,I can trace william stephen chambers and wife mary hobbs to his baptism feb 1820,with father stephen chambers ,therefore is it safe to disregard mary major for mary buglar? your comments will be more than welcome,adding to the problem is that my wifes mothers name was lester,george lester born 1848 m. a mary buglar in bridport dorest so you can see why I am so intrested kind regards Graham Chambers N.Z.

1861 Census Household Record
Household Information
Address 4, Crown Place
Parish Bermondsey
District Bermondsey, St James
Administrative County London, Surrey
Householder 1
Name William Chambers
Age 40
Estimated Year of Birth 1821
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Occupation Leather Dealer
Birth Place Bermondsey
Birth County Surrey
Householder 2
Name Mary Chambers
Age 40
Estimated Year of Birth 1821
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Occupation Leather Dealer
Birth Place Bermondsey
Birth County Surrey
Householder 3
Name William Chambers
Age 11
Estimated Year of Birth 1850
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Leather Dealer
Birth Place Bermondsey
Birth County Surrey
Householder 4
Name Dalia Chambers
Age 9
Estimated Year of Birth 1852
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Scholar
Birth Place Bermondsey
Birth County Surrey
Householder 5
Name Char Chambers
Age 6
Estimated Year of Birth 1855
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Scholar
Birth Place Bermondsey
Birth County Surrey
Householder 6
Name Kate Chambers
Age 3
Estimated Year of Birth 1858
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Bermondsey
Birth County Surrey
Householder 7
Name Emma Chambers
Age 1
Estimated Year of Birth 1860
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Bermondsey
Birth County Surrey
Householder 8
Name Maria Chambers
Age 15
Estimated Year of Birth 1846
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Domestic Servant
Birth Place Bermondsey
Birth County Surrey

1851 Census Household Record
Household Information
Address Carlton Cottages
Parish Saint James Bermondsey
District Bermondsey, Saint James Bermondsey
Administrative County Surrey
Householder 1
Name William Chambers
Age 31
Estimated Year of Birth 1820
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Occupation Leather Dresser
Birth Place Bermondsey
Birth County Surrey
Householder 2
Name Mary Chambers
Age 30
Estimated Year of Birth 1821
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Occupation
Birth Place Bermondsey
Birth County Surrey
Householder 3
Name William Chambers
Age 8
Estimated Year of Birth 1843
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Bermondsey
Birth County Surrey
Householder 4
Name Mary Chambers
Age 5
Estimated Year of Birth 1846
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Bermondsey
Birth County Surrey
Householder 5
Name Charles Chambers
Age 3
Estimated Year of Birth 1848
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Bermondsey
Birth County Surrey
Householder 6
Name Joseph Chambers
Age 1
Estimated Year of Birth 1850
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Bermondsey
Birth County Surrey

Possible problem, or potential confusion ....................


as we all know, ancestry trees are notoriously unreliable, they can however give guidelines as to where to look, or dangers to avoid ............

One tree, seemingly with documentation has ..............

William Stephen Chambers born ca 1820 Bermondsey is on several trees on ancestry as the son of William Stephen Chambers and Mary Ann Major ......... Banns 31 July 1814, St George the Martyr, Southwark, London. Married 19 Feb 1815, St George the Martyr, Southwark


marriage record actually shows William Chambers married Mary Major

ie, no middle name for either of them

This tree shows William Stephen marrying Mary Hobbs


There seems to be much confusion ......... as another William Stephen that fits yours, is shown on another tree with unknown parents!

How did you get back to your William Stephen?????????





sylvia

???????????


from ancestry

William Stephen's baptism?????


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about William Stephen Chambers

Name: William Stephen Chambers
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 27 Feb 1820
Father's Name: Stephen Chambers
Mother's Name: Mary Ann Chambers
Parish or Poor Law Union: St George the Martyr
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers


from image ..................

Address:- Great Guildford Street
Father occupation:- Bricklayer


Unfortunately, William Stephen's birth date was written in the margin, BUT it is trapped in the fold of the page, and is almost impossible to make out.

All I can see of it is .................

-tober 19

There is a number above the letters which I cannot make out

That could be October 19 or October 1819



also from ancestry ................


London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980 about William Stephen Chambers

Name: William Stephen Chambers
Record Type: Burial
Estimated Death Date: abt 1872
Burial Date: 9 Mar 1872
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1820
Parish or Poor Law Union: Norwood Cemetery, Norwood Road, Lambeth
Borough: Lambeth
Register Type: Bishop's Transcript
Comments: Reused graves at Norwood; see the database description for a link for more information.

from image ................

Address:- 114 (indecipherable word) Street, Bermondsey



London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Mary Hobbs

Name: Mary Hobbs
Spouse Name: William Stephen Chambers
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 23 Jan 1842
Parish: Brixton St Matthew
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: Thomas Hobbs
Spouse Father Name: William Stepher Chambers
Register Type: Parish Register

from image ..............

William
Bachelor
Occupation:- Leather Dresser
Address:- Bermondsey
Father name and occupation:- William Stephen Chambers, Leather Dresser

Mary
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- Bermondsey
Father name and occupation:- Thomas Hobbs, Sawyer

Witnesses:- John S (unreadable surname) and Giles (unreadable) Shirley

from ancestry


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Mary Buglar

Name: Mary Buglar
Spouse Name: Stephen Chambers
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 2 Feb 1817
Parish: Lambeth St Mary
Borough: Lambeth
Register Type: Parish Register

from image ..............

Stephen Chambers, Bachelor, of this Parish

Mary Buglar, Spinster, of this Parish

Witnesses:- Wm Buglar and May or Marie Mery <<<<< woman's name has additions and mistakes, so difficult to read


This is all you will find on Parish Registers of this date

Fathers names are NOT on Parish Registers that early.

Nor are occupations of groom or bride