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Tracing Peter back through the census, I can't find him with his father, Robert, but I can find him with a mother Ann and his siblings back to 1841. Baptisms for all the other children seem to be on lan-opc but not Peter.

It was LancashireAnn who posted the probate; it is on Ancestry. There is an image from the National Probate Calender which says

"15th August Administration of the personal estate of Peter Brown late of Low's Row School Lane Wigan in the County of Lancaster Collier a Widower who died 5th July 1889 at Low's Row was granted at Liverpool to Robert Brown of 37 School Lane Collier the son and one of the next of kin". Estate was valued at £52.

Administration being granted I think means there was no Will.

thanks for the information Polly.
I've been attending a family history course the past few weeks at the library. Last week we were told that for wills and probate to check with Salford council! Have done this without success. Where did you get the information from for Probate? tjhanks Dee :-(

Also, Dee, the probate that lancashireAnn posted for Peter Brown gives his address as School Lane, the same address as on Williams' marriage. This looks like Charlotte's death - her death cert would probably have the same address:


Deaths Mar 1889 (>99%)
Brown Charlotte 54 Wigan 8c 44

Another PM received from Dee saying that on the birth cert she has the mother's name is Ellen Brown. I have asked her to reply on the thread.

Dee, you cannot be sure that the birth cert you have is correct. William could have been born 1869/70 and there are several possible births in that period.

William's marriage gives his father as Peter and he has been found on the census with Peter and Charlotte (nee Fairhurst).

I am pretty sure that this William is yours.

This looks like William's baptism - address is the same as the 1871 census:

Baptism: 31 Oct 1869 St George, Wigan, Lancashire, England
William Brown - [Child] of Peter Brown & Charlotte
Abode: Kay St
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: Philip Hains
Register: Baptisms 1859 - 1893, Page 55, Entry 435
Source: Original register at Wigan Archives

Bertha's baptism:

Baptism: 17 Dec 1893 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Bertha Brown - [Child] of William Brown & Eliza
Born: 24 Nov
Abode: Prescott St
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: H.W.M. Gunning Curate
Register: Baptisms 1892 - 1893, Page 293, Entry 2342
Source: LDS Film 1885688

The above are from lancsopc and there baptisms for William & Eliza'a other children on there:

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/indexp.html

Dee, is this the birth cert that has an unknown father on it? If so, what is the mother's name?

From the postings above, it looks as if your William's father was Peter and his mother Charlotte Fairhurst.

1st PM

sorry for not getting back sooner - family illness. On Williams birth certificate he was born at 53 Vauxhall Road. in 1914 he was living at Wihnall Street. in 1893 when he and Eliza had my grandmother bertha they lived at 80 Prescot Street.
any info gratefully received Dee.

Have received PMs from LittleDee - will C&P them below this.

Following up on Potty's http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/ post:
Marriage: 23 Sep 1852 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England
Peter Brown - (X), 19 Collier Bachelor of Scholes
Charlotte Fairhurst - (X), 19 Spinster of Scholes
Groom's Father: Robert Brown, Deceased
Bride's Father: William Fairhurst, Deceased
Witness: William Heyes, (X); Elizabeth Brown, (X)
Married by Banns by: James Crowshaw Curate of St.Thomas'
Register: Marriages 1851 - 1853, Page 166, Entry 331
Source: LDS Film 1885696


Looks like they were both buried in public graves:
Surname Forename Age Place of Death Date Year Notes Grave Cremation Religion
Brown Charlotte 54 yrs Low's Row, School Ln. 26-Mar 1889 E 154 * Non Con
Brown Peter 55 yrs 6 Low's Row, School Ln. 08-Jul 1889 B 232 Non Con

So LanAnn's probate looks like it's our Peter.

I had a look for Brown-Fairhurst births in 1851-81 - there's abt 30, so ours isn't the only Brown-Fairhurst couple.
However, all the Brown-Fairhurst births are rego'ed in Wigan subdistrict, and none in Upholland subdistrict.

1901 living at 4 Lower Morris St Wigan

Name Age
William Brown 32 - coal hewer
Eliza Brown 33
Alice Brown 9
Bertha Brown 7
John Brown 5
Henry Brown 3

all chi;dren's mmn = Cash from lancs bmd

there was a Peter Brown (collier) who died 1889 in School Lane Wigan age 55 - probate to Robert Brown - there was a Robert Brown witness on William's marriage

may be worth applying for that will

On one of the censuses, William gives his POB as Pemberton Lane, Upholland. What address is on the birth cert you have?

Lancashire bmd has this birth:

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1869
BROWN William Wigan Wigan & Leigh FAIRHURST WIG/89/478

and this marriage:

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1852
BROWN Peter FAIRHURST Charlotte All Saints, Wigan Wigan & Leigh C33/11/331

Assuming his father's name is correct on the marriage cert, this could be him in 1871 - notice that he has a brother Robert and a Robert Brown was a witness on the marriage:

1871 England Census
about William Brown
Name: William Brown
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Peter Brown
Mother's Name: Charlotte Brown
Gender: Male
Where born: Wigan, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Wigan
Ecclesiastical parish: St Georges
Town: Wigan
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Wigan
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 243
Piece: 3884
Folio: 93
Page Number: 36
Household Members: Name Age
Peter Brown 37
Charlotte Brown 37
Ann Brown 15
Robert Brown 13
Mary I Brown 6
Isabella Brown 4
William Brown 2
Robert Brown 40

The same family in 1871:

1881 England Census
about Isabel Brown
Name: Isabel Brown
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Peter Brown
Mother's Name: Charlotte Brown
Gender: Female
Where born: Wigan, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Wigan
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 46 Boyswell Lane
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Wigan
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3762
Folio: 105
Page Number: 24
Household Members: Name Age
Peter Brown 48
Charlotte Brown 49
My. J. Brown 16
Isabel Brown 13
Will. Brown 12
Alice Brown 9
Joseph Brown 7

Dee, have you found Bertha with her parents on any census? If so, please can you post the details. When and where was she born?

Dee, this is the marriage from Lancashire bmd:

CASH Eliza BROWN William St. Thomas, Wigan Wigan & Leigh C11/5/54

Was this the ref you quoted? Any way, you have his marriage above. Giving a deceased father was often a way of covering up illegitimacy. How sure are you that the birth cert you have is the correct one? From the marriage, he could have been born in 1869 and there three 1869 Wigan births that could be his.

thank you every body. The information I hold about William is sketchy at best. He was the father of my grandmother Bertha Swift nee Brown.
I had obtained his death certificate - died in 1952 working back born in approx 1970.
on searching his marriage found out that he was married in Wigan 1989.

I requested from Wigan registrar office his marriage and birth certificate. They rang me back yesterday to ssay they could not find the marriage certificate even though I had given the reference no. Said they had found his birth certificate but father was unknown.
thank youn for the info that you have given.
Dee :-0

Fairly new poster - friendly message re how to return to thread sent. :-)

I think we need some feedback from the poster in case we are wasting our time