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Hello Everybody,
I am looking for information about JOHN SAUNDERS b.1836, and his wife MARY CALVERT (nee Francis) b.1843. In the 1911 census MARY (listed as a widow) is living with her son LESLIE and LESLIE is stated to be aged 14 and born in America, so JOHN and MARY may have emigrated, if there is anyone with shipping records for that time could you kindly look to see if this family are mentioned. Thank you.
Regards,
Judy

1911 - for ref.

Name: Leslie Saunders
Age in 1911: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1897
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: United States
Civil parish: Clerkenwell St James and Clerkenwell St John
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 40 Granville Square WC
Occupation: VOCAL STUDENT
Registration district: Holborn
Registration District Number: 14
Sub-registration district: Clerkenwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Piece: 1231
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Frances Saunders 61 b. Southhampton
Leslie Saunders 14

Mary Widow but had filled in married 40 years, 4 children born 2 living 2 had died.

The only censu taht I see at the moment is this one

1871

Name: Mary Francis Saunders
[Mary Frances Calvert]
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John Saunders
Father's Name: Thomas Calvert
Mother's Name: Elizth Calvert
Gender: Female
Where born: Southampton, Hampshire, England
Civil parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: Christchurch Southwark
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 107
Piece: 594
Folio: 58
Page Number: 15
Household Members: Name Age
John Saunders 35 Compositor, b. Brighton, Sussex
Mary Francis Saunders 27
Edwd Fred Saunders 8 b. London
Thomas Calvert 58
Elizth Calvert 64


Could Leslie actually be her Grandson?

1881 using their 2nd names


1881 England Census about Frederick Saunders
Name: Frederick Saunders
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Saunders
Mother's Name: Frances Saunders
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Newington
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 47 Heygate St
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Printer Machine Minder

Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: St Mary Newington
ED, institution, or vessel: 16a
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 554
Folio: 86
Page Number: 52
Household Members:
Name Age
John Saunders 45 b Brighton....Engineer Machine (E & M)
Frances Saunders 36 b Southampton
Frederick Saunders 19 b Lambeth ...Printer Machine Minder

.

Well found Moody Blue!

This looks rather odd so perhaps someone can disprove it?

Cannot find a marriage for John Saunders to Mary F Calvert.

and this looks too much of a coincidence......................................

Is this the same man with 2 different Marys?


(1 )
1881 England Census about John Saunders
Name: John Saunders
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Saunders
Gender: Male
Where born: Brighton, Sussex, England

Civil parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: Trinity Square No 27
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Occupation: Manager Of Printing Office

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Brixton
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 613
Folio: 40
Page Number: 27
Household Members:
Name Age
John Saunders 47
Mary Saunders 46
Arthur Saunders 21
Isabel Saunders 17
Clara Saunders 13
Florence Saunders 11

marriage of above?


England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1940 about John Saunders
Name: John Saunders
Gender: Male
Birth Date: abt 1834
Age: 22
Father's Name: William Saunders
Spouse's Name: Mary Parsons
Spouse's Age: 21
Spouse's Father's Name: George Parsons
Marriage Date: 5 Mar 1856
Marriage Place: Brighton, Sussex, England


(2 ) the other Mary & John that I cannot find the marriage for

1871 England Census about John Saunders
Name: John Saunders
[John Calvert]
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Francis Saunders
Gender: Male
Where born: Brighton, Sussex, England
Civil parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: Christchurch Southwark
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 107
Piece: 594
Folio: 58
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
>>>>>>>>>>>>>John Saunders 35 compositor...................printing?
Mary Francis Saunders 27
Edwd Fred Saunders 8
Thomas Calvert 58
Elizth Calvert 64

I couldn't find a marriage either Moody Blue. The occupations do seem rather likely. I also though it a bit questionabale that Mary could have a 14 year old son in 1911?

The original post says the Mary was Calvert maiden name Francis. I couldn't find that marriage either. Nor can I find anything for a Leslie Saunders in the USA.

In 1871 the Calverts are his in-laws

snap!! Though I do have second thoughts on them being the same man as the 1851 census does have one born 1834 and the other 1836 Brighton. Ah well it was just a thought!

Something not quite right here. Would a woman born 1843 have a child in 1897?

The other one born in Brighton is a Plumber!

Rootgather could you look at a marriage on London marriage and Banns and tell me what you think please?

Mary Frances Silvani Siveter (widow) father Thomas Calvert marries John Saunders (Printer) Lambeth St Mary 1895.

Name: John Saunders , Bachelor, Printer, 58 Nelsons Suare
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Age: 52
Spouse Name: Mary Frances Silvani Siveter , Widow, 1 Miner (?) Place, Southwark
Spouse Age: 45
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 1 Sep 1895
Parish: Lambeth St Mary
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: William Saunders Stonemason (dec)
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Calvert (Engineer, dec.)
Register Type: Parish Register


Witnesess George Whitebread and Annie Rottins(?)



Marriages Sep 1895 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Burgoyne Robert William Lambeth 1d 710
Freeman Sarah Alice Lambeth 1d 710
Saunders John Lambeth 1d 710
Siveter Mary Frances S Lambeth 1d 710

So if she was 45 when she married would there have been a child in 1897?

thanks for looking rootgatherer....I wasn't sure whether or not to "stir" the cooking pot or not. It does appear tobe a family full of secrets??




In the 1871 census, Thomas Calvert born abt 1813 has occupation as " Engineer "just as in the marriage that I asked rootgatherer to check her father is also " engineer"

Just been looking for her first marriage - unsuccessfully!

I was wondering if they hadn't married earlier as she was still married to Mr. Siveter?

I think that this is Mary with her parents in 1851

Name: Thomas Colbert
[Thomas Calvert]
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Colbert
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Leighton, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: Stratford St John
Town: Stratford
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Stratford
ED, institution, or vessel: 10l
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 141
Piece: 1768
Folio: 285
Page Number: 37
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Colbert 36 Engine Driver
Elizabeth Colbert 43 b. Wiltshire
William Colbert 16 b. Wiltshire
Mary Colbert 8 b. Southampton


1841 - None of them born in County

Name: William Calvert
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Gender: Male

Civil parish: St Mary
Hundred: Southampton Town
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Southampton
Sub-registration district: Southampton
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 417
Book: 4
Folio: 9
Page Number: 12
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Calvert 30 Labourer
Elizabeth Calvert 30
William Calvert 5

Is this Mary's death I wonder.......

Deaths Mar 1912
Saunders Mary F 61 Holborn 1b 722


Does seem to be flexible regarding her age lol

Edward Frederick Saunders aka Sivester? As he was 8 in 1871 he was born before the not found marriage in abt 1871 re 1911 census.

Births Sep 1862
SIVESTER Edward Frederick Wilvani Lambeth 1d 283

Marriages Dec 1881
NEATE Charlotte Francis London C. 1c 39
SIVETER Edward Frederick S London C. 1c 39



London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Edward Frederick Silvain Siveter
Name: Edward Frederick Silvain Siveter....machine printer
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Age: 19
Spouse Name: Charlotte Frances Neate
Spouse Age: 19
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Dec 1881
Parish: St Bartholomew, Moor Lane
Borough: City of London
Father Name: Edward Frederick Sievter..contortionist
Spouse Father Name: William Neate.....artist
Register Type: Parish Register

witnesses
Richard Thomas Rollins
Jane Porter




Edwards address.....109 New kent Road
Charlotte....28Beech St Barbican





England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2006 about Charlotte F Siveter
Name: Charlotte F Siveter
Birth Date: abt 1862
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1941
Age at Death: 79
Registration district: Hove
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 2b
Page: 767

1901

Name: Charlotte F Siveter
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Hoxton, London, England

Civil parish: Islington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington, South-East
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 189
Piece: 189
Folio: 72
Page Number: 31
Household Members: Name Age
Charlotte F Siveter 40 Married, Book Folder
Charlotte B Siveter 16 Book Folder, b. London City