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London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Charles Van Notten Pole
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 30 May 1829
Father's Name: Charles Richard Pole
Mother's Name: Anne Eliza Pole
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Parish Registers

Wow thank you all.

You are so good at this. But what are you doing giving me yet another marriage which doesn't seem to tie up at all?
The Charles VNP you quote is obviously from the right area. (she lived in Dorset but her sister married in1904 at Ifracombe only a couple of miles from Combe Martin where Charles VNP lived (and I have no other reason for her marrying so far away from her home or her future husbands home or family, none of which were in North Devon) .
However, although I have a note saying she married him in 1903 it doesn't seem to tie up with his age or his status on your census quotes.

I don't know what to make of Mr Paulet although the dates are possible.

You come from good stock Anthony

Gloucester Echo 22nd May 1948. Cotswold Baronet Dies.


Sir Cecil Pery Van Notten - Pole, 4th Baronet, died at his home at Todenham, near Moreton in Marsh on Friday at the age of 85. He succeeded his grand father in the title and estates 61 years ago.

The family boasts of and ancient foreign ancestry, deriving its origins from Henry Van Notten, who was enables by the Emperor Maximillion in 1499 and created a Knight of TheRoyal Roman Empire.

It was nearly 230 years ago that the head of the family settled in London and had a son who married the daughter heiress of Charles Pole MP for Liverpool, whose name he assumed. The family has been associated with the Cotswolds ever since.

MARRIED IN 1894

Sir Cecil served successively in the 3rd Battalion Royal Yeomany, the 23rd London Regiment and The Labour Corps, retiring in 1917 with the rank of Major. He was a JP for the counties of Gloucester and Warwick. He married in 1894 Miss Freda Katherine Freake, daughter of the late Sir Thomas Freake Bt, a former mayor of Dartmouth, she died. Childless in 1939. Sir Cecil's last surviving brother Mr Chandos Edward Van Notten Pole died in December.

****There is also in the Morning Post, London dated 25/08/1887 info on wills for Peter Van Notten Pole formally of Upper Harley Streetand late of Todenham he left ini excess of £8900 and his wife was Dame Louisa VNP. In the Western Daily Press 25/08/1887 is the will forms Matilda Pole ( mentions the VNP connections)


*****EDIT There a loads of references to this family in old newspapers.

Harold Victor Paulet/Bacon died in kenya 13/11/1921 probate July 1938 to Ella Cleather Barker £1500.

Harold born 1875 Australia married Florence Edith Duncan 1897 decree absolute July 1904 he married again 1904 to ?

His probate under Harold Victor Bacon/Paulet.

Maryb.

Looking at the baptism posted by Gins
Charles was christened Charles van Notten (all under Christian name column) POLE. Father was Charles Pole, Esquire under Occupation, living in Nottingham Place. Mother Anne Eliza. Charles was born 10 Dec 1828 (and baptised by Watson Buller Cole)

Same parent and address details for Edward Clitherow

A daughter was baptised Millicent Felizarda Pole in 1827 by Arthur Buller. Looks like she was named for her father's first wife

Charles' Father Charles I think had an earlier marriage and is on Ancestry under Marriage Bonds and Allegations. Briefly -
Charles Pole formerly Van Notten of Devonshire Square and Richard Buller (the natural and lawful father of Felizard)) obligate to allow the marriage of Charles to Felizard Matilda Buller a minor, dated October 1795.

Felizard presumably died and Charles married Anne ELiza

Watson Buller Pole Reverend s/o Charles Pole, Esquire married Matilda Pole d/o Peter Pole, Baronet 1846, married by Richard Pole, Rector

So good stock as Tenerife Sun says. There is plenty more on Ancestry, with titles, army service etc. Appears the van Nottens were from Holland.

Have got carried away with the van Nottens, which doesn't help your original request, but most of us aren't so well connected!!

You are all amazing. I have been researching Ella through various web sites for years with no success - but now:
I think I know what has been going on. (in outline anyway):
Ella married Charles van Notten-Pole of Combe Martin (his second wife) she was 21 - he was 75! He wasa great nephew of Sir Peter Van Notten-Pole who links up directly to the family you mention. He died in 1909
She then married Harold Paulet/Bacon apparently who died in 1921
She then married William Barker in 1922

That is a quite remarkable bit of detective work. Now I just need to try to dot the i's and cross the t's

Thank you all so very much

Hi Anthony

Ella didnt marry Charles, there is no record of such a marriage in the UK

We cant even seem to find a connection with her to Charles, thats the reason I posted the probate records

I know you have a note to say that they married but its not looking good

She is here living under his name


London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965

Name: Mrs Ella Cleaver Van Pole
Year: 1913
County or Borough: Westminster
Ward or Division/Constituency: Marylebone West
Street Address: 15 St. Andrews-mansions

Saturday 17th April 1909 Exeter and Plymouth Gazette

Death Of Major General Van Notten Pole .......of Buzzacott House, Combe Martin on Thursday last ........he was born in 1928 .....retired 25 years ago......twice married first wife died about 13 years ago and about 6 pr 7 years ago he married his second wife the daughter of the Rev E W ( Edward William) Collinson of Widmouth House, Berrynarbor. He leaves no family

Me thinks thre were a few porkies going on!

There is an account of the marriage of Ella's sister Margaret Lucy Sophia in November 1904 but Ella isn't mentioned in it.



Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Sep 1896 (>99%)
Pole Marie Antoinette V 58 Barnstaple 5b 285

Good point TS, maybe Anthony has the marriage mixed up with the sister?

The sister married the rev someone or other Derbyshire

****************

Probate...
Van Notten Pole Charles, Buzzacotte Combe Martin.
Died 15/04/1909. Probate london 13/05/1909 to Edward Clitheroe V N P esq, the rev
Reginald Churchill clerk and Randle Fynes Wilson Holme Solicitor.
Effects £14,469. 0s. 9p. Re sworn £15,019 0s. 9d.

Has anyone found Ella on the 1911 census?

Heres the sister


1911 England Census
about Margaret Sophia Lucy Derbyshire
Name: Margaret Sophia Lucy Derbyshire
Age in 1911: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation to Head: Visitor
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Woodsford, Dorset
Civil parish: Newent
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England
Street Address: Glen Carn, Cliffords Mesne, Newent
Marital Status: Married
Registration district: Newent
Registration District Number: 324
Sub-registration district: Newent
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 48
Piece: 15247
Household Members: Name Age
John Gordon Douglas 32
Sybilla Douglas 25
Archibald Marjorie Douglas 2
Margaret Sophia Lucy Derbyshire

Wow. You do make this difficult just when I thought I'd sorted this out.

Sister Margaret married Rev Hubert Darbyshire in ilfracombe in 1904 (correct and provable). This is not near her parents, his parents or where he worked but is near Combe Martin where Charles lived.

Peerage.com quotes Charles as having married at 68 Marie Penrice and secondly Ella Collinson at 75 on 13 January 1903, second daughter of Rev Collinson. Ella was the second daughter of Rev Collinson but the age gap does seem extreme. However I cannot find a marriage record to prove it!

The newspaper account is Also correct so far as it relates to Ella's name andparentage but HOW DO I FIND THE MARRIAGE?

Anthony

You will not find the marriage, there wasnt one!

I had posted a lengthy reply but it hasn't appeared here. THere is a report in the Exeter and Plymouth Gazette - Friday 13 March 1903 saying "Major General and Mrs Van Notten Pole returned from honeymoon today". My records show (I am a Van Notten Pole descendant) that they married in Rome. She was the daughter of Rev EW Collinson This is why you will not find any marriage in the UK BMDs. His obit again in the Exeter and Plymouth Gazette - Saturday 17 April 1909 reports this too (as marrying "6 or 7 years ago) and that his first wife (Marie Antoinette Penrice) died "13 years ago" - but again this may not have been in the UK.

MaryBFS

Confused.....who are you please, are you related to Anthony?

I did post earlier, there is no marriage in the UK

Ella is not mentioned on the probate record, it might be wise to send for the Will

hi Gins, I have no idea whether I am related to Anthony - perhaps he might care to get in contact with me directly if he is? However I am a direct Van Notten Pole descendant (via Sir Peter Van Notten Pole 3rd Bt) and have extensive knowledge of the family from many, many years of research.

It might be worth looking for a marriage contract, as well as a Will - I'm afraid not got this. But I will have a further hunt for clues.

Anthony in 1901 census the Collinson were living in Ilfracombe at 5 Montpelier Terrace . Margaret married there in 1904 so possibly the family were still living there.