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Marriages Jun 1850 (>99%)
Dunlavy Ann York 23 796
Hagley Jane York 23 796
Kendell Susanna York 23 796
Loftus Thomas York 23 796
Mann Thomas York 23 796
McMarroneye Michael York 23 796
Melody Bridget York 23 796
Pattison Thomas York 23 796

Yorkshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1850
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
PATTISON Thomas KENDELL Susanna York District Marriages, York York DM/4/172
MELODY Bridget LOFTUS Thomas York District Marriages, York York DM/4/170

Ah so not the correct one. Another source told me Bridget's maiden name was AMOS!

Peter, can you please answer the questions that I posed earlier?

How old was she at death?

What was the address of the informant?

Does it give the name of her husband, Mr Welch?

A death cert doesn't usually give the maiden name of a married woman - so how do you know it was Pattison?

Margaret

Ah ok ... sorry, I missed them!

She was 41 according to the death certificate and died at 143 Duncombe Street, Middlesbrough. However, she was from and married into a travelling family.

Her husband was Thomas Welch/Welsh, a hawker/labourer.

I have her marriage certificate from 1873, and the birth certificates of some of her children.

Also, the information's address was Nile Street, Middlesbrough (where Thomas Welch/Welsh was living in 1901). I didn't post this as people have already looked up this information,

Peter

Hi Peter

Sorry you had already said the informant was at Nile Street.

You say you have the marriage cert from 1873. But the likely marriage that Barbara found is Edit 1874. So can you tell us what is on that marriage cert and what makes you sure it is the right couple?

Which of her children is your direct ancestor? And do you have the birth certificate of that person? Details please if you do.

Margaret

I haven't found Thomas Welsh at Nile Street, Middlesborough in 1901. Please post your findings.

I am very concerned that you are on the wrong track, and I'd rather get you back on the right one.

Margaret

The only thing I can find , but not sure if its anything to do with this is

1891 England Census 1891 England Census
Name: Ann Welsh
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John Welsh
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesborough

Civil parish: Middlesborough
Ecclesiastical parish: St Hildas
Town: Middlesborough
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 13, Back Nile Street

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Middlesbrough
Sub-registration district: Middlesbrough
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4005
Folio: 109
Page Number: 25
Household Members: Name Age
John Welsh 60 --Head---Rag (or Bag) Gatherer
Ann Welsh 21 Daughter
John Welsh 8 Grandson

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4005; Folio: 109; Page: 25; GSU roll: 6099115.

I was hoping Ann had gone on to marry a "Smith" but I don't think she married at All
The ages are out for John and Ann on this census This looks like the family in 1881

1881 England Census 1881 England Census
Name: Ann Welsh
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John Welsh
Mother's Name: Mary Welsh
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesbrough, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Middlesbrough
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 5 Chapmans Yd
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Middlesbrough
Sub-registration district: Middlesbrough
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4846
Folio: 97
Page Number: 13
Household Members: Name Age
John Welsh 44
Mary Welsh 43
Patrick Welsh 19
Michael Welsh 9
James Welsh 11
Ann Welsh 16

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 4846; Folio: 97; Page: 13; GSU roll: 1342167.


Ann Welsh is then in 1901 census as a visiter and with her is John -- the Grandson From 1891 census now age 18--- they are visiting Patrick her Brother.

About Travelling people they do at times change the surname for census - could be mothers or even great grandmothers surnames

Mavis

This is Thomas living at 23 Back Nile Street.

1901 England Census
about Thomas Welsh Name: Thomas Welsh
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Scarbro, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Middlesbrough
Ecclesiastical parish: St Hilda
Town: Middlesbro
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 23 Back Nile Street

Occupation: Hawker

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Middlesbrough
Sub-registration district: Middlesbrough
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 260
Piece: 4574
Folio: 163
Page Number: 48
Household Members: Name Age
Edward Burnside 23
Margaret Burnside 22
Thomas Burnside 1 Month
Thomas Welsh 60
Jane A Welsh 14
Bridget A Welsh 12
George Welsh 10
Terence Welsh 8
Louisa Welsh 6
Mary Welsh 5

Vera

Mavis, thank you for that tip - never knew that!

Also, thanks VERA, that is the family in 1901!

And Barbara from Yorkshire - maybe John aged 60 is a cousin of my Thomas. My Thomas had a brother John so definitley not a sibling.

Thanks Margaret.

Basically, my ancestor Thomas Welch married twice - his first wife, my ancestor died in 1870. He then remarried in 1874, lying about his age. His age jumps from 28 in 1881 to 60 in 1901. He isn't on the 1871 and 1891 despite searches on here.

I'm curious about Mary Welch's informant being a cousin due to the family intermarriages. Confusing I know.

I had a death in my own family in the 1800s where the informant said she was a cousin (or might have been a sister in law), and wasn't. She WAS a relative, but the relationship was beyond their comprehension as to how to describe it, so she just plumped for what seemed reasonable. In fact, she was the first cousin once removed of the seond husband of the deceased. Try explaining that in 1880!

So you might have a lot of research to do to get to who exactly Mary Welch's informant was.

Good luck!

Margaret

Was wondering about this ?


England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915
about Annabella Wright

Name:

Annabella Wright
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1877
Registration district: Middlesbrough
Inferred County: Yorkshire North Riding
Volume Number: 9d
Page Number: 800

THe 2 males on the page are

Samuel Coupe
Robert Walter Smith

==============================

On 1881 census

1881 England Census 1881 England Census
Name: Annie B. Smith
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Robert Smith
Gender: Female
Where born: Guisbro, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Linthorpe
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 23 Jameson St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Wife

Registration district: Middlesbrough
Sub-registration district: Middlesbrough
ED, institution, or vessel: 41
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4854
Folio: 72
Page Number: 31
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Smith 30 --head --Labourer Iron Works-- London, Middlesex, Englandd
Annie B. Smith 24 ---Guisbro, Yorkshire
Lottie Smith 3 --Middlesbrough

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 4854; Folio: 72; Page: 31; GSU roll: 1342169.
===========================================================

On 1891

Living in same house And Annabella is now Anna B ---

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4011; Folio: 121; Page: 7; GSU roll: 6099121

========================================================

1901
Now is Hannah B

Now living at what looks like 8 Milbank Street (but could be Nilback street ??)

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 4578; Folio: 65; Page: 26.
========================================================

then in 1911

1911 England Census 1911 England Census
Name: Annabella Smith
Age in 1911: 53
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Gwishborugh (Guisborough)
Civil parish: Middlesbrough
County/Island: Yorkshire-North Riding
Country: England
Street Address: 8 Duncombe Street Middlesbrough
Marital Status: Widowed
Registration district: Middlesbrough
Registration District Number: 535
Sub-registration district: Middlesbrough West
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Piece: 29279
Household Members: Name Age
Annabella Smith 53

All Children born Middlesbrough

Robert Walter Smith 26
Mary Ann Smith 23
George William Smith 21
Alice Adamson Smith 17
Richard Wright Smith 14
John Charles Smith 11
John Barnswell 57 --Boarder--born ireland


Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 29279; ; .

It says 8 children born i had died before 1911 (I think this was Lottie from 1881 census)
==========================================================

I will look to see if i can find a connection with Wright / Welsh etc.