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Thanks Shirley, will do

My real problem is getting any detail on JP's parents. Birth is pre central records> Can't identify in the 41 census, that's the real issue for me

1891 census
Name: John Parker
Age: 63
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Margaret Parker
Gender: Male
Where born: Bollington, Cheshire, England
Civil parish: Withington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
Town: Withington
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:retired cotton dealer

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Chorlton
Sub-registration district: Didsbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3162
Folio: 64
Page Number: 34
Household Members:
Name Age
John Parker 63
Margaret Parker 47
John W Parker 14
George H Parker 12
Jane N Parker 9
Arthur V Parker 6 b withington lancs
Sarah Knight 25

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 3162; Folio: 64; Page: 34; GSU roll: 6098272.

Name: Arthur Victor Parker
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1884
Registration district: Chorlton
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 698

Chorlton reg district covered Withington

Name: Arthur V Parker
Birth Date: abt 1885
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1964
Age at Death: 79
Registration district: Southport
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10f
Page: 723


So would recommend you get his birth cert for mums name

If you get the birth cert then you will have Margarets maiden name so can look again for a marriage. Hopefully then the cert will name his father which will help

good stuff, and thanks

SO looks like Jane N was Jane Newton Parker b c 1882

Births Dec 1881
PARKER Jane Newton Chorlton 8c 604

She married in 1909

Name: Jane Newton Parker
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1909
Registration district: Ormskirk
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume Number: 8b
Page Number: 1388
spouse George Bradbury

So its a guess that Margaret was Margaret Newton and this come up

Marriages Jun 1879 (>99%)
PARKER John Stockport 8a 116
NEWTON MARGARET Stockport 8a 116


you do need the birth cert for Arthur to cross check

Name: Jane Newton Bradbury
Age in 1911: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Withington, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Lymm
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address: Brampton Lymm Ches
Marital Status: Married
Registration district: Bucklow
Registration District Number: 445
Sub-registration district: Lymm
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Piece: 21584
Household Members:
Name Age
George Bradbury 34 occ bank Clerk b Manchester
Jane Newton Bradbury 29
Nelly Goodwin 16 servant

Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 21584; ; .
Source Information:

Name: Jane Newton Bradbury
Probate Date: 18 Apr 1955
Death Date: 16 Jun 1954
Death Place: Caernarvonshire, Wales
Registry: Bangor

died 16.6.1954 at Taddeswen Nursing home Old Colwyn Denbighshire Probate to Geroge Bradbury retired bank Manager

home address Brampton St . Hilarys -Drive. Deganwy Carnarvonshire


Name: Jane N Bradbury
Birth Date: abt 1881
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1954
Age at Death: 73
Registration district: Aled
Inferred County: Denbighshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 375

Shirley - that is a highly impressive bit of sleuthing! i have ordered the Cert for Arthur Victor Parker, looking at the Lancs BMD site, there is no mother's maiden name listed, but we can hope

Thanks again, any other thoughts would be great

Ok, with thanks to all, we have

-John Parker, born in Didsbury, registered Chorlton in 1877, who married Jessie Florence Krueger and then Rita Stapley
- his father, John Parker, born 1828 in Bollington, married firstly to Jane Clague and then to Margaret, probably Newton in 1879

Without expecting any more help, I would appreciate advice, please. Where do I go to try to find John senior's (the 1828 one) parents

I posted an 1841 census yesterday, highlighting a John Parker in Manchester NOT born in Lancs. This is the 1851 with George b Bollington ?? brother perhaps, might give you another avenue to explore

1851 census transcription details for: 100, York Terrace York Street, Cheetham, Manchester

Print Close
National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 2232
Folio: 216
Page: 8
Reg. District: Manchester
Sub District: Cheetham
Parish: Cheetham
Enum. District: 1G
Ecclesiastical District: St Thomas's Red Bank
City/Municipal Borough: Manchester
Address: 100, York Terrace York Street, Cheetham, Manchester
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
PARKER, George Head Married M 33 1818 Cotton Dealer Bollington, Cheshire
PARKER, Martha Wife Married F 28 1823 Manchester, Lancashire
PARKER, Sarah Daughter Unmarried F 10 1841 Manchester, Lancashire
PARKER, Martha Daughter Unmarried F 8 1843 Manchester, Lancashire
PARKER, George Son Unmarried M 5 1846 Manchester, Lancashire
TURNER, Catherine Servant Unmarried F 19 1832 House Servant Liverpool, Lancashire

Thanks, Stuart, saw that and have been trying to piece that side together. In addition the 51 census has a William Parker and his family living at York Street, same as George above. Unfortunately neither of these has a father living there, and I can prove no link to John William, other than gut feel, which isn't too scientific.

What I have done is to order a birth cert for JWP, and have contacted some people who seem to have these two on their family trees, and can
But hope

Chris

Am wondering about these?????
I'm sure that there is more than one lot of George and Sarah Parker's around the time you are looking at, but these births come up on Family Search.
Pott Shrigley and Prestbury are either side of Bollington within a mile or so.
John, Thomas, George and William can all be found born about the right time - on the 1851 census born Bollington, Dealers in Cotton

Thomas in Birkenhead (b 1826 Babbington on transcript, Bollington on original)
William in Cheetham, Manchester (b 1822)
George in Cheetham (b 1818)
John in Manchester (b 1828)
All 1851-age = year born, but more likely to be year before)

Thomas Parker
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 1825 POTT-?SHRIGLEY CHAPELRY,? CHESHIRE,? ENGLAND
residence: Pott Shrigley,? Cheshire,? England
parents: George Parker,? Sarah

John Parker
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 1827 POTT-?SHRIGLEY CHAPELRY,? CHESHIRE,? ENGLAND
residence: Pott Shrigley,? Cheshire,? England
parents: George Parker,? Sarah

Mary Anne Parker
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 1830 POTT-?SHRIGLEY CHAPELRY,? CHESHIRE,? ENGLAND
residence: Pott Shrigley,? Cheshire,? England
parents: George Parker,? Sarah

Mary Anne Parker
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 07 Feb 1830 Pott-?Shrigley Chapelry,? Cheshire,? England
parents: George Parker,? Sarah

John Parker
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 15 Jul 1827 Pott-?Shrigley Chapelry,? Cheshire,? England
parents: George Parker,? Sarah

Thomas Parker
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 25 Sep 1825 Pott-?Shrigley Chapelry,? Cheshire,? England
parents: George Parker,? Sarah

Sarah Parker
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
christening: 20 Apr 1823 Prestbury,? Cheshire,? England
residence: 20 Apr 1823 ,? ,? England,? Cheshire
parents: George Parker,? Sarah

William Parker
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
christening: 10 Jun 1821 Prestbury,? Cheshire,? England
residence: 10 Jun 1821 ,? ,? England,? Cheshire
parents: George Parker,? Sarah

Thomas Parker
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
christening: 18 Apr 1819 Prestbury,? Cheshire,? England
residence: 18 Apr 1819 ,? ,? England,? Cheshire
parents: George Parker,? Sarah

George Parker
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
christening: 22 Jun 1817 Prestbury,? Cheshire,? England
residence: 22 Jun 1817 ,? ,? England,? Cheshire
parents: George Parker,? Sarah

Thomas Parker
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
christening: 25 Sep 1825 Pott-?Shrigley,? Cheshire,? England
residence: 25 Sep 1825 ,? ,? England,? Cheshire
parents: George Parker,? Sarah Parker

John Parker
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
christening: 15 Jul 1827 Pott-?Shrigley,? Cheshire,? England
residence: 15 Jul 1827 ,? ,? England,? Cheshire
parents: George Parker,? Sarah Parker

Mary Anne Parker
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
christening: 07 Feb 1830 Pott-?Shrigley,? Cheshire,? England
residence: 07 Feb 1830 ,? ,? England,? Cheshire
parents: George Parker,? Sarah Parker

Mary Ann Parker
England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000
christening: 24 Oct 1813 Wincle,? Chester,? England
residence: 24 Oct 1813 ,? Wincle,? Cheshire,? England
parents: George Parker,? Sarah

Mary Ann Parker
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 24 Oct 1813 Wincle,? Cheshire,? England
residence: 24 Oct 1813 ,? Wincle,? Cheshire,? England
parents: George Parker,? Sarah

Mary Ann Parker
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 24 Oct 1813 Wincle,? Cheshire,? England
residence: 24 Oct 1813 ,? Wincle,? Cheshire,? England
parents: George Parker,? Sarah Parker

George Parker
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 22 Jun 1817 Prestbury,? Cheshire,? England
residence: 22 Jun 1817 ,? Prestbury,? Cheshire,? England
parents: George Parker,? Sarah Parker

Thomas Parker
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 18 Apr 1819 Prestbury,? Cheshire,? England
residence: 18 Apr 1819 ,? Prestbury,? Cheshire,? England
parents: George Parker,? Sarah Parker

Thomas Parker
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 25 Sep 1825 Pott-?Shrigley,? Cheshire,? England
residence: 25 Sep 1825 ,? Pott-?Shrigley,? Cheshire,? England
parents: George Parker,? Sarah

Mary Anne Parker
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 07 Feb 1830 Pott-?Shrigley,? Cheshire,? England
residence: 07 Feb 1830 ,? Pott-?Shrigley,? Cheshire,? England
parents: George Parker,? Sarah


John Parker
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 15 Jul 1827 Pott-?Shrigley,? Cheshire,? England
residence: 15 Jul 1827 ,? Pott-?Shrigley,? Cheshire,? England
parents: George Parker,? Sarah

William Parker
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 10 Jun 1821 Prestbury,? Cheshire,? England
residence: 10 Jun 1821 ,? Prestbury,? Cheshire,? England
parents: George Parker,? Sarah

Sarah Parker
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 20 Apr 1823 Prestbury,? Cheshire,? England
residence: 20 Apr 1823 ,? Prestbury,? Cheshire,? England
parents: George Parker,? Sarah

Elizabeth Parker
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 04 Apr 1830 Cheadle,? Cheshire,? England
residence: 04 Apr 1830 ,? Cheadle,? Cheshire,? England
parents: George Parker,? Sarah

William Parker
England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900
christening: 08 Jan 1832 Cheadle,? Cheshire,? England
residence: 08 Jan 1832 ,? Cheadle,? Cheshire,? England
parents: George Parker,? Sarah

Stuart - while you were working so hard, I had reckoned that George, William and John had to be brothers. The 51 census has the first two, the only Parkersburg born in Bollington and living in Cheetham, both cotton dealers (as was John) and the birth dates of 1818, 1822 and 1828 for John. The first two were also both living in York Street.

Looking at 41, I think that the parents may well have died and the younger children split between the two brothers. The younger William, was living with two old Parkersburg, Thomas and Peter, born 1791

Now the question is, how do I prove it??

Chris

Stuart forgive the predictive txt, meant to say the only Parkers born in.......

? In 1841 I think the 1821 ish William is more likely to be the one at Brewer Street with the Mellor family. William Mellor and William Parker are both Cotton dealers and WP is not born in County.
There is also an Elizabeth Parker on that census, aged 15 but with the rounding down could be up to age 19.
When you go to the 1851, there is a Betsey aged 25 as wife to William
Is this just a coincidence?

EDIT - not a coincidence, looks closer at census of 1851 - mother in law is Mellor

A marriage certificate for any of the Parker brothers should give you the Father's names and occupation and whether deceased. (Now to find the correct marriages!!)

Yes , ia assumed he was with the Mellors, and went there with Elizabeth, leaving John and Mary with George and Martha.

Should get birth cert for JWP tomorrow

Am I missing something, who are the 2 old Parkers you mention in 1841.

Am referring to marriage certificate for the brothers born 1817-1827 to tell you who their father is, as that was your original question.

As an aside - John William 1877 and George 1879, both born before John and Margaret married if correct marriage. Was Margaret not free to marry until later? OR - I have a housekeeper in my lot who later turns out to be mother of the household heads younger children, then she moves on after his death and does the same thing, although she did marry both at some point!!

The two old Parkers- William is living with them in 1841

Will attempt to discover marriages of William and George tomorrow and then order

Shocking though it may be, John definitely born before Margaret married, so is his mother the first wife, Jane Clague, or the second Margaret Newton? Perhaps she was married before and Newton is her married name

Nothing would surprise me, I have found lots of little embarrassments in other parts of the tree.

Chris

That William is born LAncs. I think the William with the Mellors in 1841 is the more likely and that Elizabeth in the 1841 and Betsey in the 1851 are the same person. Young bride!
Ashton under Lyne RD covers Royton where Elizabeth was born and Oldham. Not sure the old PArkers have anything to do with it (? found Thomas b 1788 on the 1851 still in Alport Town b Yorkshire - with a much younger wife)

???Civil Registration event: Marriage

Name: PARKER, William
Registration district: Ashton under Lyne
County: Lancashire
Year of registration: 1840
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Spouse's last name: Not available before 1912
Volume no: 20
Page no: 59
MarriageFinder: William Parker married one of the following people:

HOYLES, Mary
MARLAND, Harriet
MELLOR, Elizabeth <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
RAYNOR, Mary Ann
BRICK, Edward
BROWN, Jacob
JONES, John

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1840
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
PARKER William MELLOR Elizabeth Oldham, St. Mary Oldham CE235/3/37