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I am trying to find the birth of James Seddon born abt 1805. I have him in the 1841 census married to Maria Redfearn, they married in 1828 in Leigh, Lancashire, but in 1851 census James as shown as widower. In 1853 James married Mary Walls. I sent for the marriage certificate of James and Mary but it doesn't show a father for James, only for Mary. The witnesses were James Higson and Samuel Whittle. Interestingly, the witnesses for the marriage of James and Maria Redfearn were William Smith and Samuel Whittle. Can anyone suggest how I can find the parents of James.
Thanks
Yvonne

If there was no fathers name on the marriage for James he was probably base born and did'nt know who his father was.

for info
Marriage: 19 Feb 1828 St Mary the Virgin, Leigh, Lancashire, England
James Seddon - (X), of Leigh Parish
Maria Redfearn - (X), of Leigh Parish
Witness: William Smith; Samuel Whittle
Married by Banns with Consent of Parties by: Jonathan Topping Vicar
Register: Marriages 1825 - 1832, Page 118, Entry 354
Source: LDS Film 559188

Name: James Seddon
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Gender: Male
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Leigh
Hundred: West Derby
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England


Registration district: Leigh
Sub-registration district: Atherton and Tyldesley
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 513
Book: 2
Folio: 15
Page Number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
James Seddon 35
Maria Seddon 35
Mary Redfern 15
Sarah Redfern 13
John Seddon 12
Hannah Seddon 10
Nancy Seddon 4
Jemima Seddon 2


1851

Name: James Seddon
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Relation: Son-in-law
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Westhoughton, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Atherton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England



View image

Registration district: Leigh
Sub-registration district: West Leigh
ED, institution, or vessel: 1a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 133
Piece: 2205
Folio: 275

Found this, but have no idea whether it is anyway near where James said he was born on the 1851 ...Westhoughton

Baptisms: 26 Apr 1805 St James, Brindle, Lancashire, England
James Seddon - Son of Wm. Seddon & Betty
Abode: Whittle
Register: Baptisms 1789 - 1812, Page 60, Entry 24
Source: LDS Film 1849648



Regards Vera

Baptisms: 19 Aug 1809 St Mary the Virgin, Leigh, Lancashire, England
James Seddon - Son of John Seddon & Martha
Abode: Hindley Wgn.
Register: Baptisms 1798 - 1812, Page 130
Source: LDS Film 1885649

these are other mariages in Leigh most have Samuel Whittle as a witness

Marriage: 12 Nov 1822 St Mary the Virgin, Leigh, Lancashire, England
James Seddon - (X), Nailor of Leigh Parish
Margaret Thompson - (X), Spinster of Leigh Parish
Witness: James Smith; Samuel Whittle
Married by Banns by: Joseph Hodgkinson Vicar
Register: Marriages 1820 - 1825, Page 153, Entry 458
Source: LDS Film 559188

Marriage: 6 Jan 1823 St Mary the Virgin, Leigh, Lancashire, England
James Seddon - (X), Collier of Leigh Parish
Betty Houghton - (X), Spinster of Leigh Parish
Witness: Samuel Whittle; Timothy Taylor
Married by Banns by: Jacob Robson Curate
Register: Marriages 1820 - 1825, Page 165, Entry 495
Source: LDS Film 559188

Marriage: 8 Nov 1829 St Mary the Virgin, Leigh, Lancashire, England
James Seddon - (X), of Leigh Parish
Mary Cross - (X), of Leigh Parish
Witness: Samuel Whittle; William Taylor
Married by Banns with Consent of Parties by: Jonathan Topping Vicar
Register: Marriages 1825 - 1832, Page 200, Entry 600
Source: LDS Film 559188

Thanks all. I'm wondering if maybe Samuel Whittle was someone who worked for the church and not a friend or relative. I have had contact with two people through Genes and one says his parents are James and Ann Collier and the other has them as William and Nancy. There is a marriage reference for James and Ann Collier on IGI but it gives son James as being born in 1802 in Westhoughton. The IGI marriage reference for James and Nancy and gives him as born in 1804. I have no idea where to go from here.
Thanks

Yvonne

name: James Seddon
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 28 Apr 1804
baptism/christening place: West Houghton, Lancashire, England
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name:
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Nancy Seddon
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: I03998-1
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1545485
reference number:

Ralph Seddon

England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

christening: 14 Feb 1809 West Houghton,? Lancashire,? England
residence: West Houghton,? Lancashire,? England

parents: William Seddon,? Nancy Seddon

Ann Seddon

England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

christening: 04 Oct 1807 West Houghton,? Lancashire,? England
residence: West Houghton,? Lancashire,? England

parents: William Seddon,? Nancy Seddon

Michal Seddon

England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

christening: 04 Aug 1813 West Houghton,? Lancashire,? England
residence: West Houghton,? Lancashire,? England

parents: William Seddon,? Nancy Seddon

James Seddon

England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

christening: 28 Apr 1804 West Houghton,? Lancashire,? England
residence: West Houghton,? Lancashire,? England

parents: Nancy Seddon

Betty Seddon

England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

christening: 26 May 1811 West Houghton,? Lancashire,? England
residence: West Houghton,? Lancashire,? England

parents: William Seddon,? Nancy Seddon

Thanks Vicci, I hadn't found that reference. If there's no father shown on the marriage certificate though is any of the above likely to be relevant.

Thanks
Yvonne

reggie thanks I am aware of that, trying to establish if there is more than one Nancy Seddon in West Houghton around that time.
could be a mistake and father's name not transcribed or illegible.

lancs opc does not have the baptisms.

curiously...

Burial: 7 Dec 1806 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England
James Seddon - Son of Nancy Seddon
Abode: Orms[kirk]
Register: Burials 1794 - 1812, Page 41, Entry 11
Source: LDS Film 1849663

Sadly, I don't think you can deduce anything safely from any of the above findings.

My only suggestion is you try to find some of the possible parents on the 1841/51 census, and then their deaths, and try local cemeteries to find out who paid for their graves. A lot can be gleaned from graves.

Thanks again everybody. Reggie, that certainly makes sense and would explain why he appears on so many. I think I do agree with Madmeg though, even though the other findings are understandable, I don't think anything can be safely deduced. Things get so difficult once you go pre-1837 don't they. Assuming I found their deaths how would I go about finding their graves, since I live outside the UK. Would I have to contact the various cemeteries.

Yvonne

I'm adding this to my old post, just for background.

My James Seddon was born in Atherton, Lancs., about 1805. He married Maria Redfearn in 1828. Maria died about 1849 and James re-married to Mary Walls in October 1853.
Now, in 1851 James would've been a widower and for some reason the family is split up in the census.
James is living with his mother-in-law, Mary Redfearn, in Guest Fold, but his children are living with Sarah Redfearn.
My question is - can anyone suggest why they would be split up.

Thanks.

There could be any number of reasons - I'm sure you can think of some

As the census info only reflects the situation on one particular date, it may be that James was just visiting his mother-in-law that night.

Or perhaps it was for work reasons.

The family is not necessarily "split up" in any permanent sense.


For our reference:

Sarah Redfern
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Sarah Redfern
Age: 43
Estimated birth year: abt 1808
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancr Atherton
Civil Parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 1k
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 78
Piece: 2230
Page Number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
Sarah Redfern 43
Hannah Seddon 19 sister
Nancy Seddon 14 sister
Jemima Seddon 13 - sister
Jane Seddon 8 - sister
James Bullough 25 - lodger
Mary Bullough 26 - lodger
Sarah Bullough 1 - lodger



James Seddon
in the 1851 England Census
Name: James Seddon
Age: 45
Estimated birth year: abt 1806
Relation: Son-in-law
Gender: Male
Where born: Westhoughton, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Atherton
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Leigh
Sub-registration district: West Leigh
ED, institution, or vessel: 1a
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 133
Piece: 2205
Folio: 275
Page Number: 34
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Redfern 72
John Redfern 50 - son, widower
Jane Redfern 44 - daughter, unmarried
Jame [ Jane ] Redfern 11 - grand-daughter
James Seddon 45 - son-iin-law, widower
B Platt 46 - lodger

Thanks ArgyllGran. I agree that James could just be visiting but I just thought it strange that the whole family was split like that at the time of the census. I wondered if they’d had to give up their home for some reason after Maria died.

I'm doing a follow-up on this and not sure if it's the right place to do it.
In 1861 James Seddon is shown as Victualler of the Jolly Nailor Beer House. James died in 1870 and the pub was then run by his daughter Jemima Seddon, as shown in 1871 census. She died in 1875 so I'm not sure what happened after that. I looked up the Jolly Nailor Pub and a sign outside shows a cobbler hitting a nail into a boot and below it says established 1909. I've tried googling this but can't find anything. Any suggestions how I can find out about this (I don't live in UK).

The address for the Jolly Nailer in 1871 was 32 & 34 Market Street, Atherton.

It appears not to have been a pub by 1881.

William Knowles
in the 1881 England Census
Name William Knowles
Relationship to Head Son
Father William Knowles
Mother Nancy Knowles
Gender Male
Where born Atherton, Lancashire, England
Civil parish Atherton
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Street Address 32 and 34 Market St
Registration district Leigh
ED, institution, or vessel 2
Neighbors
Piece 3808
Folio 35
Page number 16
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
William Knowles 47 Head - coal miner
Nancy Knowles 46 Wife
Mary Ann Knowles 16 Daughter - cotton [something]
Thomas Knowles 11 Son
Joseph Knowles 11 Son
Maria Ellen Knowles 7 Daughter
William Knowles Son
Elizabeth A. Charlton 30 Niece - domestic servant
Nancy Charlton 4 Niece
Thomas Dootson 19 Nephew - [something] in a coal mine
Ellen Dootson 17 Niece - factory hand
William Marsh 50 Boarder - nail maker

BUT -

in 1891 it's again the Jolly Nailer, but only at 32 Market Street;

Margaret Blakemore
in the 1891 England Census
Name Margaret Blakemore
Gender Female
Age 28
Relationship Head
Birth Year 1863
Child
Albert Blakemore
Birth Place Much Hoole, Lancashire, England
Civil parish Atherton
Ecclesiastical parish St John
Residence Place Atherton, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Registration district Leigh
Sub registration district Atherton
ED, Institution or Vessel 2
Neighbors
Piece 3089
Folio 28
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Margaret Blakemore 28 Head , widow - licensed victualler
Albert Blakemore 5 Son
Ellen Beard 18 Servant