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Thanks for that Anne,

From that I have managed to establish the following:-

Marriage:-

07/06/1844 WOTHERSPOON ISABELLA MALCOM CAMERON/FR7623 (FR7623) F GLASGOW

Children:-

25/02/1847 CAMERON MARION DAVIDSON MALCOM CAMERON/ISABELLA WOTHERSPOON FR5936 (FR5936) F GLASGOW GLASGOW CITY CITY/LANARK

05/12/1844 CAMERON THOMAS MALCOM CAMERON/ISABELLA WOTHERSPOON FR5741 (FR5741) M GLASGOW

08/09/1848 CAMERON CHARLES MALCOM CAMERON/ISABELLA WOTHERSPOON FR6043 (FR6043) M GLASGOW

18/03/1850 CAMERON MALCOM MALCOM CAMERON/ISABELLA WOTHERSPOON FR6142 (FR6142) M GLASGOW

This information was extracted from Scotlands People so I presume it will be reasonably accurate. I will need to research further as to why Thomas and Charles do not show on the 1851 census. I am presuming that they probably died in infancy :-(

Regards,

Jim

Here it is James

1861
Name: Agnes Wotherspoon
[Agnes Naismith]
Age: 68
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1793
Relationship: Mother
Gender: Female
Where born: Cumbernauld, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 644/2
Registration district: High Church
Civil parish: Glasgow Inner High
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 43 Duke St
ED: 15
Household schedule number: 17
Line: 16
Roll: CSSCT1861_98
Household Members:
Name Age
Isabella Morland 37
Marion Cameron 14
Malcom Cameron 11
Agnes M Cameron 7
Agnes Wotherspoon 68
Agnes Naithsmith 68
Elizabeth Wotherspoon 23
John Livingston 41
George Livingston 12

I have looked at the family of Isabella Wotherspoon with John Moreland
They married in 1853 and Family search shows only one child.
Agnes Moreland b 26 Feb 1854 in Glasgow which looks suspiciously like the 7 yr old child on this census?
I think that John Moreland was Isabella's 2nd husband and was married 1st to Malcolm Cameron ???

This is 1851, 2yrs before her marriage to John Moreland, she is living in the same area of Glasgow and the children are the same as in 1861.

Name: Isabella Cameron
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1824
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's Name: Malcolm Cameron
Gender: Female
Where born: Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
Parish Number: 644/1
Civil parish: Glasgow St John
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 363 Gallowgate St
ED: 9
Page: 25 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 108
Line: 16
Roll: CSSCT1851_160
Household Members: Name Age
Malcolm Cameron 31
Isabella Cameron 27
Marion Cameron 4
Malcolm Cameron 1

Anne




Anne

Hi Anne,

I have dealt with the Knox side of the equation, now going to look at the Moreland side, can you tell me where this 1861 census information was from please so I can look it up:-

1861:
Agnes Wotherspoon Ms Naismith ( presumably a widow) is found in the home of her daughter Isabella Moreland.

Thanks,

James

Hi James,
I now agree with you.
We have finally arrived back at your starting point, albeit by a different route!
Thomas Wotherspoon b 1792 will be the son of:
George Wotherspoon and Christian Burnett...


Children of Thomas Wotherspoon and Agnes Naismith
1st son is called George and 2nd daughter is called Christian.
1st daughter is indeed called Agnes but no 2nd son called Hugh
Thomas should be allocated to the 3rd son which is correct
I don't know why the 2nd son is William rather than Hugh???

This is the family:
Agnes bc 1813.. She married David Knox in 1836
( banns in both Glasgow and Old Kilpatrick)
Christian b 1814
Elizabeth b 1816
George bc 1819
William b 1821
Isabella bc 1824. She married John Moreland in 1853, Glasgow
Thomas bc 1828
Catherine bc 1831

1861:
Agnes Wotherspoon Ms Naismith ( presumably a widow) is found in the home of her daughter Isabella Moreland
1871:
She is in the home of her daughter Agnes Knox

Anne

Hi James,
I am presuming that the death cert is for Agnes Wotherspoon Ms Naismith, widow of Thomas Wotherspoon?
If so,the marriage you gave is definitely correct.
Was Agnes 79yrs old when she died? If so, thats her birth too!

I wonder why there is no obvious child called Hugh born to Thomas and Agnes?
I have looked on censuses and there is only one Hugh Wotherpoon in this time frame and he is most definitely not from this family!

Anne

Hi Anne,

I got the Death Certificate from Scotlands People and it shows her parents as being Hugh Naismith and Agnes Naismith (nee Clark).

I tried to track her birth and parents down but all I have found at the moment is this on FamilySearch.org, do you think this could possibly be them:-

name: Agnes Naysmith
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 08 Mar 1791
baptism/christening place: CUMBERNAULD, DUNBARTON, SCOTLAND
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Hugh Naysmith
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Agnes Clark
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C11495-4
system origin: Scotland-ODM
source film number: 1041984


Hugh Naysmith
Scotland, Marriages, 1561-1910
marriage: 26 Nov 1789 Cumbernauld,? Dunbarton,?Scotland

spouse: Agnes Clarke

groom's name: Hugh Naysmith
bride's name: Agnes Clarke
marriage date: 26 Nov 1789
marriage place: Cumbernauld,Dunbarton,Scotland
indexing project (batch) number: M11495-4
system origin: Scotland-ODM
source film number:

Regards,

James

Hi James,
I learned long ago that in genealogy, doing the Maths is imperative ... and even now I can still get it wrong.
However..
I took this from my previous post:
Children of Thomas Wotherspoon and Agnes Naismith:

Christian Wotherspoon b 28 Aug 1814 Old Monkland
Elizabeth Wotherspoon b 23 Dec 1816 Old Monkland
William Wotherspoon b 7 May 1821 Old Monkland
Catharine Wotherspoon b 14 Aug 1830 Old Monkland

We now know that son George fits inbetween Elizabeth b 1816 and William b1821

Looking back at the info on Thomas and Agnes (Naismith), Thomas was born around 1792 and Agnes at about 1794.
Agnes could only be about 20yrs old when Christian was born in 1814, and is probably the eldest child.
Agnes was still living in 1871 aged 77, but I know from an SP search that she died in Lanarkshire in 1872 ( aged 79)
Obtaining her death cert will provide the names of her parents allowing you to make an informed opinion about the naming pattern of her own children.


Anne

Anne,

Thank you so much for that, now that I have put Thomas in my tree as the father of George, things are now starting to make a lot more sense.

I am now going to work my way through the other information you have posted.

Once again many many thanks, and also a big thank to you Beverley.

Regards,

James

Hi Beverley,
I got the death cert for George Wotherspoon and have Pm'd it to James.
He was married to Janet Galloway and died in 1872

He was definitely the son of Thomas Wotherspoon with Agnes Naismith and all the family data relating to these parents is on an earlier part of this thread.

Thomas was born circa 1792 and his son George circa 1819.

James's problem seems to stem from inaccurate guestimates on birth years, and then using this to find potential parents who fit the profile.

Copied and pasted from his thread:

Jane Wotherspoon b1920 my Mother 100%
Allan Wotherspoon b1896 my Grandfather 100%
Allan Wotherspoon b1871 my Gt Grandfather 100%
****George Wotherspoon b1808 my Gt Gt Grandfather 100% *****
John Wotherspoon b1783 my Gt Gt Gt Grandfather

*** This George was born circa 1819 not 1808*** Father was Thomas rather than John

The ancestry should look like this....
Jane Wotherspoon b1920 my Mother 100%
Allan Wotherspoon b1896 my Grandfather 100%
Allan Wotherspoon b1871 my Gt Grandfather 100%
George Wotherspoon b1819 my Gt Gt Grandfather 100% (m Janet Galloway)
Thomas Wotherspoon b1792 my Gt Gt Gt Grandfather 100% ( m Agnes Naismith)

Anne

James, note the children of George Wotherspoon and Janet Galloway which Anne has listed for you.
First daughter - Janet - almost invariably the name of Janet Galloway's mother
First son - Thomas - George W's father
Second daughter - Agnes - George W's mother

The pattern of naming children after their grandparents was pretty strictly followed and is a useful guide to working out parents.

Beverley

Janet Galloway:

Janet Condie, previously Wotherspoon, maiden name Galloway died in Leslie, Fife in 1886.
Her son James Wotherspoon and his family are found in Bothwell, Lanarkshire where his brother ALLAN Wotherspoon is living with him.
( Anc has transcribed this incorrectly, placing Allan and his brother in separate properties but they are the SAME house!)

1891 Scotland Census about Allan Wotherspoon
Name: Allan Wotherspoon
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relationship: Brother of Head (Head) *****
Gender: Male
Where born: Leslie, Fifeshire
Registration Number: 625/1
Registration district: Bothwell
Civil parish: Bothwell
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 89 Place Rows
Occupation: Coal Miner
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 77
Line: 14
Roll: CSSCT1891_224
Household Members:
Name Age
Allan Wotherspoon 19


1891 Scotland Census about James Wotherspoon
Name: James Wotherspoon
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Maggie Wotherspoon
Gender: Male
Where born: Leslie, Fifeshire
Registration Number: 625/1
Registration district: Bothwell
Civil parish: Bothwell
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 89 Place Rows
Occupation: Coal Miner
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 77
Line: 8
Roll: CSSCT1891_224
Household Members:
Name Age
James Wotherspoon 28
Maggie Wotherspoon 29
Archibald Gilchrist 11 Illeg child of wife
Jessie Wotherspoon 7
George Wotherspoon 3
William G Wotherspoon 1

Anne

Hi James,

What happened to Thomas Wotherspoon b 1792 who married Agnes Naismith?
They have been dropped from your tree and your list??

Lets look at this again..

George Wotherspoon and Janet Galloway married in 1846

ONLY their children born on statutory records appear on family search, and I can find none OPR on SP between 1846 and 1854,
However, here were at least 3 children born in this period.

Definitive Children born to George Wotherspoon and Janet Galloway:

Janet Wotherspoon bc 1847 ( cannot find OPR birth)
Thomas Wotherspoon bc 1849 ( cannot find OPR birth)
Agnes Wotherspoon bc 1851 ( cannot find OPR birth)
Elizabeth Wotherspoon18 Aug 1855 Calton, Glasgow
George Wotherspoon b 8 Aug 1857 High Church, Glasgow
William Wotherspoon b 24 Jan 1860
James Wotherspoon b 15 Aug 1862 Leslie, Fife
Andrew Wotherspoon b 4 Dec 1864 Cupar, Fife
John Wotherspoon 29 Nov 1867
ALLAN Wotherspoon b 10 May 1871 in Lesie, Fife

GEORGE WOTHERSPOON, husband of Janet Galloway died on the 20 May 1872 in Leslie, Fife aged 53 years. ( i got his DC)
He was the son of THOMAS Wotherspoon and Agnes Naismith who are now ommitted from your ancestral list above???

In 1873, widow Janet (Galloway) remarried William Condie.

I have collected all the census data .
This is definitely the correct family, but I cannot locate them at 1851

1861
Name: George Wotherspoon
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1820
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Janet Wotherspoon
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 644/1
Registration district: Central District
Civil parish: Glasgow St David
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 35 37 39
Occupation: Carter
ED: 13
Household schedule number: 24
Line: 8
Roll: CSSCT1861_96
Household Members:
Name Age
George Wotherspoon 41
Janet Wotherspoon 33
Janet Wotherspoon 14
Thomas Wotherspoon 12
George Wotherspoon 4
William Wotherspoon 1
Agnes Wotherspoon 10

1871

1871 Scotland Census about George Wotherspoon
Name: George Wotherspoon
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Janet Wotherspoon
Gender: Male
Where born: Old Monkland, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 444
Registration district: Leslie
Civil parish: Leslie
County: Fife
Address: North Street
Occupation: Labourer
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 101
Line: 1
Roll: CSSCT1871_77
Household Members:
Name Age
George Wotherspoon 52
Janet Wotherspoon 43
Agnes Wotherspoon 19
George Wotherspoon 14
James Wotherspoon 11
William Wotherspoon 5
Andrew Wotherspoon 6
John Wotherspoon 3
George Wellwood 22
Janet Wotherspoon 23
Robert Gelman 12
Ann Cochrane 45
Kate Daupster 15
Elizabeth Cochrane 8
( all non Wotherspoons were boarders)

1881 Scotland Census about Janet Condie
Name: Janet Condie
Age: 53
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Kettle, Fifeshire
Registration Number: 444
Registration district: Leslie
Civil parish: Leslie
County: Fife
Address: North Street
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 71
Line: 9
Roll: cssct1881_123
Household Members:
Name Age
Janet Condie 53
Mary Condie 18 *** STEPDAUGHTER
Andrew Wotherspoon 16
Janet Condie 17
John Wotherspoon 14
Allan Wotherspoon 10 *******
Catherine Condie 6** DAUGHTER
Ann Macbeth 44 Boarder

Ann

Hi BeverleyW,

This is where I have back tracked to:-

Jane Wotherspoon b1920 my Mother 100%
Allan Wotherspoon b1896 my Grandfather 100%
Allan Wotherspoon b1871 my Gt Grandfather 100%
George Wotherspoon b1808 my Gt Gt Grandfather 100%
John Wotherspoon b1783 my Gt Gt Gt Grandfather 95%

However, I am learning fast and I have no doubt, that after further research that, John Wotherspoon b1783 may prove to be wrong :-(

What I now need to authenticate is, whether or not, that George Wotherspoon b1759 was the father of the John Wotherspoon b1783 above, and then and only then, establish who George Wotherspoon's wife, father, and mother were.

James

IF (and it's only an IF) that list of children is correct, then George's father would more likely be John, not Robert.
First son was nearly always named after the husband's father.

What makes you think that George 1759 is your man?

I know how frustrating it is, I have a similar situation myself which I have been unable to resolve (yet!),

Thanks BeverleyW,

I have looked at those three George's and I am as sure as I can be that the George son of Robert c1759 is the right one.

As to the children of George Wotherspoon and Christian Burnet, it looks like they had the eleven children listed below. However that information is from a Pedigree File on FamilySearch.org and as I have already found out to my cost those files are not always 100% reliable :-(

Elizabeth c1782
John c1783
James c1785
Christian c1786
Thomas c1792
Andrew c1793
Isobell c1796
George c1799
Ann c1802
Thomas c1804
Robert c1806

I am very much a novice at this genealogy thing so to a large extent I am guided by those on here who are kind enough to try and help me.

Best Wished,

James

Hi again
Unfortunately as you have probably seen, there are no less than 3 George Wotherspoons born in Lanarkshire within a very short time.

George son of John - 1755
George son of Robert - 1759
George son of James - 1760.

I don't know if you have looked into these and the marriage to see if by chance the parish records give any useful info.
Tracing George and Christian's children may give you a hint as to his parents' names

There are even more Robert Wotherspoons :-( I can't see a marriage of a Robert to a Christian either.

Not very helpful, I'm afraid.

As I said earlier, I am trying, I have to say with some difficulty as I am no expert, to systematically work backwards from those Wotherspoons I am fairly sure are correct.

I am now back to a George Wotherspoon c1759 who appears to have married, from what I have seen, a Christina or Christian Burnett, and what I found on Scotlands People was a Christian Burnet getting married in Cadder, Lanark, Scotland, to a George Wotherspoon on 04/04/1782.

That said, it has been suggested, in various places and posts, that his father was a Robert Wotherspoon/Witherspoon who was married to a Christian Mclearan, however after numerous searches on Scotlands People and some 60 credits later, I have been unable to find anything that substantiates this.

Any help on this would be appreciated.

James :-(

After the debacle of the problems caused with some of the information on Pedigree Resource Files on FamilySearch.org I am now systematically working backwards through those Wotherspoons I am fairly sure are correct, and to that end I need to establish who the mother and father of a George Wotherspoon who married a Janet Galloway on 10/04/1846 in Abbotshall, can anyone assist please?

Thanks,

James

Thanks BeverleyW,

I have several Wotherspoon ancestors that I know are 100% correct and at the moment I am working backwards through them, hopefully this will lead to some answers.

Regards,

James

Pedigree Resource Files are in the main even less accurate than Ancestry family trees. :-S :-S I recently saw one where a person was said to be born in England, baptised in the USA and then married back in England.

I would suggest that as Anne has said, you should go back to Thomas born 1792 and work carefully back from there. It seems very likely that - looking at the census - his father's name was William since this appears to be the name of his oldest son.

In my experience, names go in generational patterns in old Scottish families. At the moment, Thomas and William don't tie in with George and Robert. I think Anne has already asked you how you arrived at George b. 1700 since there seems to be no connection with Thomas b. 1792 apart from the name.