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The baptisms for the two children on 1881 census he gives his occupation as leather dresser

?? Bermondsey is a district in south London, and a part of the London Borough of Southwark. Sorry, my knowledge of London geography is non-existant.


England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about John Ellis
Name: John Ellis
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1852
Registration district: St George Southwark
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 151

1901 gives his place of birth as Southwark

Could do with some feedback from Alan

Have you considered this birth?


England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: John Henry Elliss
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1852
Registration district: Newington
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 195

1881 census transcription details for: 31, Remington St Greengrocer, St Luke
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 360
Folio: 104
Page: 26
Reg. District: Holborn
Sub District: Old Street
Parish: St Luke
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 31, Remington St Greengrocer, St Luke
County: London, Middlesex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
ELLIS, John Head Married M 29 1852 Greengrocer
Bermondsey, Surrey
ELLIS, Phoebe Wife Married F 30 1851
St Pancras, Middlesex
ELLIS, Ernest J Son Single M 4 1877
Peckham, Surrey
ELLIS, Geo H Son Single M 1 1880
St Luke, Middlesex

Will do a name correction on Ancestry.

Thanks for checking the image

Correction already done

I have been unable to find a marriage for the parents.............

Nice find GB! Henry is a labourer here, which matches the marriage certificate.

871 census transcription details for: Marigold Court, St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10
Piece: 629
Folio: 20
Page: 37
Reg. District: St Olave Southwark
Sub District:
Parish: St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Marigold Court, St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
County: London, Surrey
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
ELLISS, Henry Head M 58 1813 Suffolk
ELLISS, Matilda Wife F 54 1817 Suffolk
ELLISS, John Son M 19 1852 Surrey
ELLISS, James Son M 13 1858 Surrey

Yes, the 1871 image is Elliss....actually it's Ellifs...the old way of writing double 's'

What address does John give on his marriage cert ?

1871 could do with a second opinion on the surname

Name: Matilda Cliffs
Age: 54
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1817
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Harry Cliffs
Gender: Female
Where born: Ipswich, Suffolk, England
Civil parish: St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magdalen
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: Leather Market
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 196
Piece: 629
Folio: 20
Page Number: 37
Household Members: Name Age
Harry Cliffs 58
Matilda Cliffs 54
John Cliffs 19
James Cliffs 13

Class: RG10; Piece: 629; Folio: 20; Page: 37; GSU roll: 818926.


Address matches the 1861 census

For ref


1861 census transcription details for: 3, Marigold Court, Bermondsey, Southwark
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09
Piece: 326
Folio: 9
Page: 32
Reg. District: Bermondsey
Sub District: 3 Leather Market
Parish: Bermondsey
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District: St Mary Magdalen
City/Municipal Borough: Southwark
Address: 3, Marigold Court, Bermondsey, Southwark
County: London, Surrey
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
ELLIS, Henry Head Married M 46 1815 Tanner
Cadworn, Suffolk
ELLIS, Matilda Wife Married F 43 1818 ...
..., Suffolk
ELLIS, John Son M 9 1852 Scholar
Bermondsey, Surrey
ELLIS, Emily Daughter F 5 1856 Scholar
Bermondsey, Surrey
ELLIS, James Son M 3 1858 Scholar
Bermondsey, Surrey
ELLIS, Louisa Daughter F 0 (6M) 1861
Bermondsey, Surrey
NOBLETT, William Boarder Unmarried M 25 1836 Carrier

NOBLETT, John Boarder Unmarried M 18 1843 Bridle Cutter

1841


Name: Mary Ann Ellis
Age: 9 Mo
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Gender: Female
Where born: Surrey, England
Civil parish: St Mary Newington
Hundred: Brixton (Eastern Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: St Mary Newington
Sub-registration district: Trinity
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1065
Book: 4
Folio: 40
Page Number: 29
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Ellis 27
Matilda Ellis 24
Mary Ann Ellis 9 Mo

1851 for the parents?


Name: Matilda Ellis
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Henry Ellis
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Ipswich, Suffolk, England
Civil parish: Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magdalen
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: Bermondsey
Sub-registration district: St Mary Magdalen
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 39
Piece: 1561
Folio: 109
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Ellis 38..........Labourer
Matilda Ellis 35
Mary Ann Ellis 11
Elizabeth Statter 9 Mo Nurse child

No occupation does not match

1861 gives Henry as a tanner

Not found any of the baptisms to match the 1861 census



Witnesses - are they related ?

Does Henry's occ in 1861 match the marriage cert info?

Have you tried the IGI for a baptism?

No penalties until 1875 for not registering births....his may simply not have been
registered

Is anyone able to help me find this birth/bapt. please?.

In 1876 he marries Phoebe G.Hodge in Westminster and lists his father as Henry Ellis, Labr.
The 1891 & 1911 census has him with his family and states born Bermondsey,(Surrey) London.

I think I have them in the 1861 census with John aged 9 still born Bermondsey and also lists his parents as Henry & Matilda Ellis - both
born Suffolk.

I am aware of the FreeBMD entry (Bermondsey Vol.4 page. 42) for birth of John Ellis but I think his parents are listed John & Sarah which only confuses the issue.

If any one can help sort out this problem it will be very much appreciated.

Alan