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Hi,

I'm trying to find details of who my Great-Grandfather may be... I don't think it's going to be easy because my Grandma was illegitimate and doesn't have his name, I'm just REALLY curious!

The information I have is as follows:
My Great Grandma was born Lily Annie Skevington in Chesterfield, Derbyshire on 21/1/1890.
She married John Rudge (born 1890 in Whittington, Derbyshire) between Oct & Dec 1912. They had a daughter Ethel on 11/5/1913
John Rudge died (rumour has it, killed on the railway where he worked) between July and September 1913.
My Grandma was born Jessie Rudge in Chesterfield, Derbyshire on 14/4/1916

My Great Grandma never remarried and until we checked dates, I didn't realise John Rudge couldn't have been my Great Grandfather!
Further rumour has it that Ethel Rudge can remember being taken to the local factory gates (Robinsons of Chesterfield - where my Great Grandma had also worked), on a Friday afternoon with my Grandma as a babe in arms and receiving money from a man there.
Also later in life my Great Grandma lived with a lady called Hilda Carr who also worked at Robinsons Portland Works.

If anyone can help at all, I'd be very grateful,
Best wishes,
Alison

Alison Richardson

Also meant to say... this is my first time posting on here, is there a way I can highlight the post for the relevant surnames anywhere please?

Thanks,
Alison

Births Jun 1916
------------------------------------------------------------
Rudge Jessie Rudge Chesterfield 7b 1413


Why isnt the mothers maiden Skevington?

Hi,

Thanks for responding....

My Great Grandma took John Rudge's surname when she married him and kept it for the rest of her life... giving it to both her children, Ethel (who was John Rudge's daughter) and Jessie (whose father is unknown)


Alison

Because Lily Annie Skevington married 'Rudge' and would have kept his name after his death.

See below - and compare Ethel with Jessie

Hi Alison

I assume you have the birth for your Grandma Jessie Rudge, is it this one:

Civil registration event: Birth

Name: RUDGE, Jessie
Registration district: [?] Chesterfield
County:
Derbyshire
Year of registration: 1916
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Mother's maiden name: Rudge
Volume no:[?]7BPage no:[?]1413

and this one for Ethel

Civil registration event: Birth

Name: RUDGE, Ethel M
Registration district: [?] Chesterfield
County: Derbyshire
Year of registration: 1913
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Mother's maiden name: Skevington
Volume no:[?]7BPage no:[?]1549

A woman's maiden name is always her maiden name (unless changed by a deed poll I suppose!)

Is Jessie Rudge the daughter of John Rudge and Lily Skevington?

Or the supposed daughter of John (being as he died)


The mothers name would have been Skevington for a birth of any of her children



Just as it is here


Births Jun 1913
------------------------------------------------------------
Rudge Ethel M Skevington Chesterfield 7b 1549

HI,

Yes, they're the birth's for Ethel and Jessie ... interesting, I hadn't realised the mothers maiden name reported differently on the two certificates..

Ethel Rudge is the daughter of John Rudge & Lily Skevington

Jessie Rudge the daughter of Lily Skevington & unknown...

Lily was married to John Rudge before either girls were born so they both take his surname..

Here is John Rudge's death - sad only 23

Civil registration event: Death

Name: RUDGE, John W
Registration district: [?] Chesterfield
County: Derbyshire
Year of registration: 1913
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at death:23
Volume no: 7B Page no: 746


EDIT: You said rumour has it he died on the railway - do you have his death cert?

Its not surname that I was questioning, its the mothers maiden name for Jessie' birth

Have you got the certificate for Jessie?

Hi,

I'm really grateful that people are responding and helping .. thank you!

I don't have John Rudge's death certificate, and I've also tried searching old local papers but not found any information. I don't have his actual date of death.

Yes, sorry I got a bit muddled with the surname/maiden name thing... I haven't got Jessie's certificate although I believe it says John Rudge as father...

Could I get copies of these?

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

order from here £9-25 a go

Have you found a baptism entry for Jessie?
Sometimes a father is named there.

It would seem that her natural father at least acknowledged Jessie, if he made payments.
Was he perhaps named on her school admission log?

Gwyn

Thanks, I'll get them ordered.

I haven't found a baptism entry, although know my Aunt (Ethel's daughter) is looking into this for John Rudge so I can ask her. I'll also see if I can find the school admissions log..

Thanks,
Alison

I am wondering if the payment received each Friday was because he was killed/died in a work related accident rather than a payment by an errant father (not saying it wasn't) but if a small child (Ethel) remembers it then surely adults in the area would - and that might flag up that Jessie was illegitimate.

Perhaps there was some fund that paid out to the widow. If so there might be records of that ?

Did both of them John W and Lily Annie work at the same place (Robinsons Portland Works)?

I don't know if there would have been any payments - employees were more expendable then

Hhhmmmm, the payments could be some sort of widows type pension? Lily Annie worked at Robinsons, but John W worked on the railways.

I've spoken to Robinsons today (they're a great old family firm based in Chesterfield) and if any company did make payments at the time, it would be them. They don't have records for Lily Annie as the part of the company she worked in has been sold over the last 15 years. They did invite me to a weekly pensioner club though to see if anyone remembers her!

lol! That would be amazing if they did - and you'd get the gossip too hehe.

Yeah! Was amazed when she invited me.. apparently it's run by one of the original family members and have tea and cake and reminisce on the day trips to skeggy they used to have! Might be a fun way to spend a Friday afternoon even if I don't get any info! Lol!

This could be your Hilda Carr. Maybe their Annie was friends with Ethel and Jessie.

Name: Hilda Carr
Age in 1911: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Hasland, Derbyshire, England
Civil parish: Chesterfield
County/Island: Derbyshire
Country: England
Street Address: 19 Penmore St Hasland Chesterfield
Marital Status: Married
Registration district: Chesterfield
Registration District Number: 438
Sub-registration district: Chesterfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Piece: 21086

Robert C Carr 29
Hilda Carr 28
Annie May Carr 2


EDIT
Marriages Dec 1908

CARR Robert Cowley Chesterfield 7b 1599
HANCOCK Hilda Chesterfield 7b 1599

Alison

I would definitely go to the tea and cake afternoon, you just never know what someone may remember!