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Here are the people at the pub:

1911

Name: Llewellyn James
Age in 1911: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Civil parish: Merthyr Tydfil
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: Prince Llewellyn Inn Dowlais
Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Registration District Number: 590
Sub-registration district: Upper Merthyr Tydfil
ED, institution, or vessel: 07

William James 49 widower
Jane James 52 sister, house keeper
William James 12
Llewellyn James 11
Ivor James 9
Frank James 6
Annie James 5



1901
Name: Llewellyn James
Age in 1901: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William James
Mother's Name: Margaret James
Gender: Male
Where born: Glam, Dowlais
Civil parish: Merthyr Tydfil
Ecclesiastical parish: Dowlais St John
Town: Dowlais
County/Island: Glamorgan
Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration district: Upper Merthyr Tydfil
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 34

William James 39
Margaret James 27
William James 2
Llewellyn James 1
Jane James 45

GGRRRRRR! Ancestry is down so will have to do it later!

At this stage Vivien, everything is worth exploring !! :-)

Can't look into it at the moment though, sorry - Little grandson is here again today!

These school holidays are very busy times for grandparents ;-)

Still working on it though and will check back later.

Dea Xxx

Bore da Vivien,

I had that thought too. Zooming in on the image, it definitely says James so I'll go back and see if I can find the people in the pub 10 years earlier.

Janice

Good Morning


Please tell me if I am talking nonsense.
Living at 1 Pant Road Public house is William James - what if it was Jones
as looking back his mother was called Elizabeth and the right age for what I have.
Elizabeth was ill for 6 months with Cancer. I was wondering if she had gone to her sons to die.
Maybe she did not show on the census in 1901.. in that 6 months
When David married Margaret he was living at 2 Pant Road which was next door.

regards Vivien.

Owen seems to be pretty consistent with his age so I looked on the N Wales BMD site which gives subdistricts as well.

So my number 1 suspect is this chap:

Births Dec 1851
EVANS Owen Ruthin 27 194

Ruthin covers the districts of Llanfair Dyffryn Clwyd and Denbigh.

Now need to pin him down in 61 and 71!

Can't pin down the right Owen though. Dyffryn Clwyd is between St Asaph and Denbigh ( I am familiar with that area) but the few suspects I have never give that as their place of birth in the earlier censuses! Owen says Denbigh in 1891 but he's dead by 1901.

You are doing very well on the other side Janice !

We will go our seperate ways for the moment but will meet back together very soon !! ;-)

I look forward to it ! :-D

Now - back to that dratted David .......................... Grrrrrrrrrr!!!

Dea Xxx

Go Dea!!!! This is just as exciting as the Olympics lol!

Just to let you know that I am still working on David.

I really think I have him but, as usual it is complicated by many marriages and several 'Joneses' amongst them.

When I get to the bottom of it I will post :-S :-S :-S

At the moment, I haven't 'proved' it but nor can I disprove it :-(

Dea x

Just had a thought - now that we know Rachel's maiden name was Jones, perhaps that 1851 census entry I found could be her after all (bottom of page 1)

Hi!

Goodness knows what has happened to David Jones

Thank you for the information.

Vivien

Here's Owen in 1881 - he's a widower at this stage, and was born in N Wales

Name: Owen Evans
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Dyffrynclwyd, Denbighshire, Wales

Civil parish: Merthyr Tydfil
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: 9 Cwmcanol St Cae Harris
Occupation: Coal Miner
Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub-registration district: Upper Merthyr Tydfil
ED, institution, or vessel: 3

Ellis Jones 48
Sarah Jones 54
Margaret Jones 22
Daniel Rowland 68
John Evans 39
Owen Evans 30
Daniel Lewis 32

In the 1871 census that Dea found, the daughter Margaret was 9, an older sister for Harriet. That would make a marriage around 1861 quite likely as Rachel would be 21 then. This one looks promising:

Marriages Jun 1861
Evans Elizabeth Merthyr T 11a 496
Jones Rachel Merthyr T 11a 496
Jones Thomas Merthyr T 11a 496
Matthews Morgan Merthyr T 11a 496

Will check the census to see if Morgan married Eliz or rachel - fingers crossed!!


EDIT - YAY Morgan married Elizabeth so this looks like it could be our Thomas and Rachel :-)

Gosh, that was very quick!

Another JONES!! AAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHH!

Vivien
I have now received birth certificate for Edward Lewis Jones. born 24.10.1874
Father Thomas Jones
Mother Rachel Jones formerly Jones
Lived at. 2 Penwaunfawr. Merthyr Tydfil
Occupation of father. Stationary Engine Feeder.

I also have marriage cert between Owen Evans and Margaret Jones
28.10.1882
Owen age 30 Widower Coal Mine 9 Cwmcanol Street Father Thomas Evans Iron Miner
Margaret age 21 Spinster Penwaunfawr Father Thomas Jones Engine Tender

There's an old photo of Pant Road here (12th one down)

http://www.alangeorge.co.uk/pantyscallog.htm

I am also convinced that the other Elizabeth's death in that same Quarter is 'David's Elizabeth - aged 43 - I can find no other to fit!

Grand-daughter here today - will look back later.

Dea Xxx

Hello Janice

It is so complicated. When David Jones was getting married to Margaret his address was 2 Pant Road Dowlais. Thats 1905.
Hers was 2 Market Street Dowlais.
When David Jones died 2.2.1926 age 67 at General Hospital he was still living at 2 Market Street Dowlais.
On the register ofBuriels for Dowlais it shows David Jones age 67 died at General Hospital Interment 6.2.1926.
On the register of Graves for Dowlais it shows David alongside Elizabeth 67 died 13th May 1902.
The entry No. for David is 26207 Folio 9
The entry No Elizabeth is 16052 Folio 77
The Grave No. is ZE 25 Pant Cem. for both Vivien.

Bore da, Vivien,

I've had a look at the census records and can't find a David with wife Elizabeth with that age gap. Best I could find was 12 years older.

24/25 years older does seem a lot - although if correct, could explain the lack of children. If he was only 21 at marriage, she'd be 46!

The other thought that crossed my mind was that there are 2 Elizabeth Joneses who died in Merthyr in that quarter, and could david's wife be the other one who was 43?

Also, 1 Pant Road is the address of a pub not a residential address - mind you, I suppose she could have died at the pub!

janice