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There's this one, but he doesn't have a middle name.


Name: William Smith
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1830
Baptism Date: 3 Oct 1830
Father's Name: John Smith
Mother's Name: Frances Smith
Parish or Poor Law Union: Woolwich St Mary Magdalene
Borough: Greenwich
Register Type: Parish Registers


On the original it says he was born in Charles Street, and his father was a waterman.

Hi ChristinaS

Thanks for the William Smith (even without a middle name) possibility - everything is helpful - which is more than I can say for my ancestors! I might have to follow up on the small dead Reuben - to see if that takes me anywhere. The lack of a viable marriage between William and Jane is causing a delay as I can't see where they are or who they are with anywhere else without it! But not giving up.... All of your input is most appreciated.

I am pulling up this thread again as I have to keep same family on the same thread but looking for the DEATH of Robert William Smith (sorry) born in 1870 –who married Eliza Ann Steel(e) –.

I am working on a time period of late 1930’s to early 1950’s.

Here is what I know:

Born March1870 (Poplar)
Married May 1904 (Poplar)

and ‘know’

He was likely alive until at least the late 1930’s but had most likely died before the early 1950’s I am expecting a death sometime during the 1940’s but find these as most likely – but none seem quite right! I have searched FreeBMD 1939 to 1953

Deaths Mar 1941 (>99%)
________________________________________
Smith Robert G 71 Poplar
1c 533



Deaths Sep 1945 (>99%)
________________________________________
Smith Robert 71 Poplar
1c 152



Deaths Jun 1953 (>99%)
________________________________________
SMITH Robert W 68 W.Ham
5a 517


1941 has middle initial ‘G’ – but the age adds up, the 1945 could be but the age is out and 1953 is Robert W but the age is way out!

I know I will have to go for one of these Death certs (and it might not be any of them) but thought I would see if anyone has any ideas as so far none of them seem to fit – and I realise that whoever registered the death might not have been sure of all the facts!

Does anyone have any suggestions please?

Thank you

In 1932 the Smith family are still in Devas Street - (as per 1911 census)


London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965

Name: Robert William Smith Snr
Year: 1932
County or Borough: Tower Hamlets
Ward or Division/Constituency: Poplar
Street Address: 10 Devas Street


living at the same address are -

Eliza Ann Smith
Beatrice Maud Smith
Ernest Robert Smith
Thomas William Smith

living next door at No. 8 Devas Street are -

Robert William Smith Jnr and Florence Isobel Smith



in 1933 - living at 10 Devas Street are:-

Eliza Ann Smith
Beatrice Maud Smith
Ernest Robert Smith
Frank Henry Smith
Thomas William Smith

still living next door at No. 8 are Robert William and Florence Isobel Smith


No further sign of Robert William Smith Snr, which I suspect means he died sometime around 1932/1933.

England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2006

Name: Robert W Smith
Birth Date: abt 1871
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1933
Age at Death: 62
Registration district: Poplar
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1c
Page: 512

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Robert William Smith
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1895
Age: 21
Spouse Name: Florence Isabel Spriggs
Spouse Age: 19
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 5 Nov 1916
Parish: Poplar St Andrew
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Robert William Smith
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Slaney Spriggs
Register Type: Parish Register

>>>>address of groom - 10 Devas Street

Hi Choccy

Thanks for this information - I didn't have the 1932 and 1933 info - I know they were at Devas Street because Ernest and Beatrice had children and their son remembers them being at Devas Street - he has memories of his Grandfather (Robert William) and the dates I have used are after questioning him!! So the 1932/1933 date is too early for a death - unless the memories are from photos - or he has a really good memory going back, but I don't think so, still will expand my search a bit further back. Also helpful to have a the name of who Bob's (Robert William Jnrs) wife was.

Eliza Ann left Devas Street during the war (bombed out) and went to live with her daughter 'down the line' - so just past Stratford somewhere, but no memory of Robert William also moving out. I tried to pin it down a bit more but so far nothing more specific than late 30's to late 40's really - will check out the earlier 30's though

Thank you

I still think the Robert William Smith who died in 1933 is probably the correct one.

The only way to find out for certain is to purchase the death certificate.

He is definitely with the family in 1932 and is missing after that.

He is about the right age at death and Devas Street is in Poplar district.

Hi Choccy

Yes it does look like that could be the one - everything seems to fit and it may explain a few other things if it is. I had a similar search for a maternal great grandmother and she died much earlier than I originally estimated (got the right cert in the end), so will apply to GRO this afternoon and see what comes back Maybe I need to ask my informant some different questions!

Thanks for your help

J-A

It´s worth remembering that the info for the Electoral Rolls is collected months in advance.
My grandfather appears on the roll 18 months after he died in the mid 50s.
Try looking any time after about 1930.

Hi wisechild

Thank you, it is looking very likely that it is the 1933 then. Compounding the problem though is that my Dad said he remembers his grandfather - and a few childhood war memories so I'd worked on Robert William (Snr) being alive probably until WW2 and maybe for a while during but not after. Will apply for the 1933 one

Hope it's money well spent :-)

Do let us know.

Thanks will let you know what it says when it arrives

EDIT: Update: Just told his grandson that it must have been a much earlier death (1933) than we had originally concluded - which means that his memory of his grandfather could have been one of his earliest childhood memories. Need to get the cert now to check out that aspect!

As I am waiting for the Death Certificate for Robert Smith to arrive (hopefully the correct one) I thought I might as well try to find Eliza Smith’s Death Cert too.

To recap: after Robert Smith died and their home in Devas Street was bombed Eliza (born 1876) went to live with her daughter, so I am anticipating that it will be one of these Essex certs:

Deaths Mar 1945 (>99%)

SMITH Eliza A 67 W Ham 4a 47

or

Deaths Jun 1949 (>99%)

Smith Eliza A 74 Essex S.W. 5a 121


or

Deaths Sep 1953 (>99%)

SMITH Eliza A 77 Ilford 5a 245


I was inclined towards the 1945 West Ham one, then the 1949 Essex SW one, but the age at death for the 1953 Ilford one agrees more closely to YOB!

Just wondering if anyone can see her as Eliza Ann Smith on any ERs so that I can make a more informed choice please? If not, might try the 1953 Cert.

Thank you

J-A

So the 1933 Death Cert for Robert William Smith arrived today - well done and thank you to Choccy - it is absolutely him. All details tie up exactly - name, age, occupation and address and the informant (daughter). He died in January 1933 - which is a complete shock to his grandson (my Dad) as he has a very vivid memory of his Granddad and is amazed that the death was so early in the '30's.

Now just have to wait for the 1953 Cert to see if I have the correct one for Eliza Ann Smith.

Thank you

J-A

I have just received the 1953 death cert for Eliza - Wrong one, so back to the drawing board!

Update and Summary for Info:

My Post at 15:46 on 31/8/2012 looking for the marriage of Jane McKenzie Nelson to William Smith – is still eluding me, so my current thinking is that it was a ‘marriage’ without a ceremony.

I had hoped that obtaining the death certificate of their grandson Reuben in 1905 (son of Robert William Smith and Eliza Ann Smith formerly Thompson) might, just might, give me a clue as it was registered in Woolwich, perhaps an address or the informant’s name. Sadly not – the death was registered by Reuben’s father Robert William Smith (1870-1933), Reuben died aged 3 – Scarlet Fever in Brook Hospital (had hoped it might have been in his grandparent's home to give me a clue). So I am still stuck in the maze with these Smiths.

Ah well, ……………………

Good Evening

I am still unable to get any further with Robert William Smith (c1830) and Jane McKenzie Nelson (c1832), so am trying to fill in gaps with the Smiths I have.

Of their 3 offspring, Henry George (1866), Robert William (1870) and Reuben (Ruben) John (1873) I have located them on most Census returns - with the exception of Reuben John Smith 1873 in 1901 Census. I have him before and after but just cannot locate him on the 1901.

In 1891 he is at 100 Barchester Street in Poplar, he married Eliza Branch in 1894 (from Broomfield Street, Poplar) and is at 55 Barchester Street, Poplar for the 1911 Census with his wife Eliza (1872) and son Henry George (1896). So where was he (and Eliza and son Henry George) in 1901?

Any help gratefully received, thank you

J-A

Here they are - it says Rube on the image; living at 55 Barchester Street with Martha Venner and son Sidney, both b Cornwall:
Eliza Smith
Age:29
Estimated birth year:abt 1872
Relation to Head:Wife
Spouse:Ruba Smith
Birth Place:Poplar, London, England
Civil Parish:Bromley
Ecclesiastical parish:St Gabriel Bromley
Town:London

Ruba Smith 28
Eliza Smith 29
Henry Smith 6
Kate Smith 1 Month

I see from the 1911 that they had 9 children and only Henry has survived - how sad!

Hi Potty

Thank you so much for looking - and finding them for me! Yes, 9 children and only Henry alive in 1911. Also the 1901 gives me another one of the other 8 deceased children, hoped it might - one was also called Reuben, so I know the names of 3 of the 9. I think Eliza was the one who worked at the the match factory, who knows if that had an effect on her babies.

J-A