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Hi Nina, when you're ready to start again just update this thread and we'll take it from there, step by step.

A big thank you to eveyone who has posted and answered on my thread.

I think that my research has to start again at my grandparents - the Robert Lovell, which I was researching, appears now to have been an error on my part.

I have been too busy with work to spend time online and will return to review the research, which you have all kindly added.

Thanking you again :D

Thank you Reggie :D

I shall have a look when I next log in :)

As stated on a previous post - the marriage records showing witnesses etc are from Ancestry

Hi, I am back!

Apologies to all for leaving the conversation, as I am sometimes unable to access pc due to work commitments!

Reggie, whilst I appreciate the above entry, I believe that this might be correct. As 'Harry' is buried with my Great Grandfather in St Marys, Ilford, Essex.

Our Harry served in Northern Ireland and it is my mothers belief, that following his military service that he may have died, following a nervous breakdown, in Brentwood.

My mother recalls, her father often travelling by horse and cart over to Warley to work with his brothers, in the 1920s.

Whilst I am familiar with the freebmd site - where can I see the entries mentioned for marriages, showing names & witnesses ie the marriage of William to Louisa?

So sorry, once again for absence. I REALLY appreciate everyones comments. However, I must admit, following my research of the Lovells to Penzance: Ive learned that I really MUST check the spouses names/parents before continuing.

Nina?

Can't recall if you said when you thought the father of Ida etc died.............

Is this him?

Name: William S Lovell
Birth Date: abt 1868
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1917
Age at Death: 49
Registration district: Romford
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 462

This is HAROLD - who you were led to believe (erroneously, in my opinion) was William's 'brother'

Name: Harold Lovell
Birth Date: abt 1875
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1930
Age at Death: 55
Registration district: Billericay
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 567

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966

Name: Harold Lovell
Probate Date: 23 Dec 1930
Death Date: 1 Nov 1930
Death Place: Essex, England
Registry: Bodmin

Harold of Brentwood Mental Hospital - administration(with Will) to Adeline Price Lovell (Widow) Effects £129 6s

You can't get the names of parents from freebmd - it is a transcription of the GRO index, which gives you the necessary info to be able to order the cert(s)

Marriage records in England do not, in any case, include any info about the mothers - only the fathers of the couple marrying are recorded.

Any London marriages which have been posted above are from Ancestry website

No mention of WILLIAM on his birth reg'n

Births Sep 1869 (>99%)
LOVELL Harry Penzance 5c 304

1891 for some of the family - including HAROLD

Name: Robert C Lovell
[Robert C Nicholls]
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary T Lovell
[Eliza Lovell]
Mother's name: Sarah F Lovell
Gender: Male
Where born: Penzance, Cornwall, England
Civil parish: Penzance
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England

Registration district: Penzance
Sub-registration district: Penzance
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1859
Folio: 73
Page Number: 27
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert C Lovell 31
Mary T Lovell 31
Sarah F Lovell 55
Harold Lovell 16
Bessie Beckerleg 27
Eliza Lovell 36
Minnie Lovell 7
Richard A Lovell 4
Sarah Gilbert 56 Mother in Law
Sarah Ann Gilbert 27

Right.........let's try a different approach

This is HAROLD in 1911

Name: Harold Lovell
Age in 1911: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Penzance, Cornwall
Civil parish: Ilford
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street Address: 22 Pembroke Road, Seven Kings, Ilford, Essex
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: CanvasserPostOffice
Registration district: Romford
Registration District Number: 191
Sub-registration district: Ilford
ED, institution, or vessel: 41
Household schedule number: 268
Piece: 9890
Household Members:
Name Age
Harold Lovell 36
Adeline Price Lovell 38
Rebecca White 70

AND in 1881..................


Name: Harold Lovell
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Robert Lovell
Mother's name: Sarah F. Lovell
Gender: Male
Where born: Penzance, Cornwall, England
Civil parish: Madron - Penzance
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England
Street Address: Queen Street Penhale House

Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Penzance
Sub-registration district: Penzance
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2347
Folio: 74
Page Number: 32
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Lovell 51
Sarah F. Lovell 45
Robert C. Lovell 21
Charles Lovell 19
James Lovell 18
Francis Lovell 17
Mary T. Lovell 15
Harry Lovell 11*********************
Frederick Lovell 10
Harold Lovell 6
Rebecca Tregarthen 40


******************1871


Name: Harry Lovell
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Robert Lovell
Mother's name: Sarah F Lovell
Gender: Male
Where born: Penzance, Cornwall, England
Civil parish: Penzance
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England
Registration district: Penzance
Sub-registration district: Penzance
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Household schedule number: 57
Piece: 2341
Folio: 53
Page Number: 12
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Lovell 40
Sarah F Lovell 35
Robert C Lovell 11
Crenwill Lovell 9
James G Lovell 8
Francis Lovell 7
Mary T Lovell 5
Harry Lovell 1
Frederick Lovell 1 Month

Point taken Mike! I just googled the Devon town!

Getting too confused at this hour of morning - will have to have a relook on my tree, when I ve got a quiet house :)

One thing is for sure, I need to work out on FreeBMD and other sites how to extract the names of bride/groom parents and other records. The census's are full of info, but as proven by all involved here - you really need to make sure you have the right person each time you find a possible link! :D

Could it be that the grave you mentioned is the wrong William ?

The William Henry ( who could have been known as Harry) and who had a father Robert, was from Devon area ... not a million miles from Cornwall !

This must be Lawrence from 1901 census

Births Jun 1895
Lovell Charles Lawrence A - W. Ham 4a 38

Reggie - I am 100% about his children, Charles, Ida, Walter & Alfred!

My Grandfather is Walter.

Charles, I believe lived in Hainault Forest, Essex and I think Alfred resided in Dagenham, Essex?

More likely that Harold not William was known as Harry.

As stated earlier, the William Lovell who married Louisa Prophet named his father as Samuel not Robert..

Hence the reason that William had Samuel as his middle name I should imagine.

Reggie - Ida May was my grandfathers sister and yes I believe that she died around the young age of 5 :-(

Hi everyone,

Thank you all for your interest and valued assistance with this :-D

One thing that I am certain of is that the following is 100%

In 1901 he is -

LOVELL, William S Head Married M 32 1869 Boot Maker Tottenham, Middlesex VIEW
LOVELL, Louisa Wife Married F 32 1869 Edmonton, Middlesex VIEW
LOVELL, Lawrance C Son M 5 1896 Stratford, Essex VIEW
LOVELL, Ida M Daughter F 2 1899 Forest Gate, Essex VIEW

Piece: 662
Folio: 133
Page: 38
Registration District: Kingston
Civil Parish: Kingston upon Thames
Municipal Borough:
Address: 43, Somerset Road, Kingston Upon Thames
County: Surrey

However, apart from the 'duplication' of marriage, I was advised by the Chuch (where he is buried) that William S Lovell's family came from Cornwall. Also, the church records in Ilford, show that he is buried with other members of his family, including his younger brother Harold b1875 d1930 Brentwood! :-S

I am aware that this census has been posted before

1911 census

Person: LOVELL, William Samuel Address: 6 Railway Terrace Laburnham Grove Ilford

LOVELL, William Samuel Head Married19 years M 43 1868 Boot Repairer Rivetter Middlesex Tottenham VIEW
LOVELL, Louisa Wife Married19 years F 42 1869 Nil Edmonton VIEW
LOVELL, Charles Laurance Augustus Son Single M 16 1895 Outfitter's Errand Lad Essex Stratford VIEW
LOVELL, Walter Robert Son Single M 8 1903 School Middlesex Tottenham VIEW
LOVELL, Alfred Frederick Son Single M 4 1907 Essex Manor Park VIEW RG number: RG14 Piece: 9864 Reference: RG14PN9864 RG78PN521A RD191 SD2 ED15 SN23 Registration District: Romford Sub District: Ilford Enumeration District: 15 Parish: Ilford

SIX children born in marriage - 3 have died

In your GR tree, you have an Ida Lovell born 1899 - birthplace unknown.

Is this her?

Births Sep 1898 (>99%)
LOVELL Ida May W.Ham 4a 211
Deaths Mar 1904 (>99%)
LOVELL Ida May 5 Edmonton 3a 274