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Yes I thought about that too , for some reason the Fellman s I originally researched became Feldman when they took the boat to USA . I looked up possible alternative spellings on a family name site .Maybe his mother's first name Mendel would also give a hint to their precise origins .I was surpised because i thought that was a man's name .A more Russian version of George could be Yuri . We assume they were Jewish because of the names .

MarieCeleste we must have posted at the same time . Is a 36 year old as a "young" man ? had he lost his Russian accent enough to be thought from Jersey ?
unlikely he'd have taken to travelling the country after being a draper in Birkenhead for at least 2 years (Maisie was born Dec 1899 and he was still in Borough Road in 1901 Census).I don't think he was a total rogue as he must have admitted to fathering the child ....it seems it would have been easier for a man to deny paternity and save money ...(unless there was some other proof .)



How did you find the newspaper report ? I wonder if one was published about the court case when Charlotte Roberts sued our George Jacob Fellman for child support in january 1900 ?

Hi Alisoun, well I did say I didn't know if there was any connection!

However, there is the following to consider:

I can't see any George or George Jacob Fellman on any census in the Channel Islands, there's nothing to say that part is true.

I personally would call a chap in his mid thirties a young man, but perhaps I'm old!

My Russian friend and her daughter came to England 10 years ago. The mother still has quite a heavy accent, her daughter who was in her teens when she arrived has no trace of a Russian accent at all. Neither does my adopted Russian niece (although she was only 10 when adopted and is 18 now).

The article doesn't imply that the chap was some sort of seedy merchant, it does imply that he was a commercial traveller as he was intending to sell the cards to stationers. The 1901 shows your George Jacob not just as a draper but also as a general dealer. Also, that possible 1911 has him as a traveller collector. Victorian erotica was quite fashionable and what may have been acceptable in parts of England may have offended someone else in Dundee.

I'll send you the actual article so you can decide for yourself.

I found the article when searching the British Newspaper Archives to see if there was any mention of the court order in the papers but this article was all that came up.

Alisoun, I was wondering if "belongs" Jersey may mean that he'd been living there, even if just for a short while?

MarieCeleste , yes ,children brought up multilingual find it easier to take up a new language later. In Kurland people spoke Russian ,Yiddish and German .
. I'm in a quandary about what to do about these 2 threads now as they are starting to be parallel . This one is getting long + hard to follow but I don't want to close it as I've not given up on finding ggma charlotte yet .

Alisoun, I know we normally say one thread per family but I do agree it's getting messy.

Why not keep this one as the "Charlotte" thread and the other as the Fellman?

If anything turned up that was relevant to both then they can be cross referenced.

Wirral archives helped again although there was no address for Charlotte Roberts on the affiliation order they explained that these type of claims were treated in small claims court and not considered worthy of transcripts .Also they would not be newsworthy enough for local paper ;

Think "belongs to jersey" was a mis-typing of "belongs to Jewry"

BIG NEWS ;we now have registration as an alien cert from glamorgan for George Jacob Fellman; dated 1917.

Hi Alisoun, - great news on George, covered in your other thread - shame that Latvian bmd site needs an interpreter!

This thread has got so complicated it's difficult to follow, so apologies if I am suggesting something already posted or followed up on.

One thing that stands out, if your grandmother found Charlotte and wrote to her Charlotte must have maintained some contact with either her sister Mary Irvine or the Hollis family after her marriage. Otherwise how could she have found her? We now know her father did not leave a will, therefore his estate would be equally split between his 2 children, although Mary was the executor - not unusual as she was the oldest.

There were no internet searches available to her, and even now there are we can't find Charlotte's marriage with any degree of certainty - all we know is she did marry and have at least one son with a "respectable" job.

Have you tried to follow Mary Roberts/Irvine and her family, see if any of her descendants could hold some information? I see she is on the 1911 census with her husband & son Alexander, but I think there are three more births - twins Eric & John in 1913 and daughter Caroline in 1916 all in Birkenhead.

I think this is Isaac (age is right on death reg):

Isaac Irvine
Probate Date: 20 Feb 1939
Death Date: 27 Dec 1938
Death Place: Birkenhead, Merseyside, England
Registry: Liverpool, England

Administration granted to his widow Mary £303 8/3
Address 35 Mossley Road, Tranmere, Birkenhead.

Looks like Mary stayed local - probate for son John (again death reg gives right age):

John Irvine
Probate Date: 17 Apr 1951
Death Date: 7 Dec 1950
Death Place: Birkenhead
Registry: London, England

Of 35 Mossley Rd, Tranmere. Admin granted to Mary Irvine, widow.

Goodness Flip where did you find this information ; I got nowhere with the Irvines just kept getting scottish indications ; it's lovely that mary stayed at the same address as the 1911 one in Birkenhead and had more children and that she named her daughter after her mother and 1 son after her father.She must have lived to a ripe old age too as she'd have been in her 70's when her son died .
so back on track for searching nana maisies cousins + their descendents . Thanks

Hi Alisoun

The births are on freebmd, easy to search post 1911 as mother's maiden name can be used as well.

I got the deaths and probate records from Ancestry - but am unclear whether Mary (widow) on John's probate was his mother or his wife. You need to check for marriages/deaths for the children to find out more - I didn't search any further than what I posted and don't have access much through the week.

Another probate for you:

Mary Irvine
Probate Date: 29 May 1953
Death Date: 11 Feb 1953
Death Place: Birkenhead
Registry: Liverpool, England

Mary, a widow of 35 Mossley Road, died at 8 Kings Lane, Bebington. Admin granted to Alexander Irvine, journalist - £1739 10d

Thank you Flip well if he was a journalist I should be able to find hime somewhere I'll try the local newspapers 1st .

Well, it looks like he stayed local:

Alexander Irvine
Birth Date: 13 Jul 1909
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1976
Age at Death: 67
Registration District: Birkenhead
Inferred County: Merseyside
Volume: 37
Page: 0727

Which matches with this birth:

Alexander Irvine
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1909
Registration District: Birkenhead
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 513

hopefully this summer I'll get to go to Birkenhead and look at all these places ,I haven't found Alexander Irvine anywhere else despite him being a journalist

new thread posted...have advised deletion

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/living_relatives/thread/1328497


Flip refers above to 'other thread'.......how many are there about this subject?

I did ask this question on geneology chat before posting on living ancestors
I don't feel I'm asking about the same person

There is a Charlotte Roberts living alone as a costumier in High st .Conway on 1911 census ;she's aged 30 so still young enough to have a respectable marriage and child no way of knowing if she's OUR Charlotte.