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Hi Susan,

I have built a basic straight-backwards tree to Sidney's grandfather. Frustratingly William b 1796 must have had a wife before Maria who he married Dec 1837. His numerous children cannot all have been born to Maria. In the 1841 she is 30 (b1811) and in the 1851 shown as a widow age 36 (b1815). Either way, not likely to have had the first child that I've been able to find in the family - Georgina b 1821. I'm at a loss to go further back right now given all my family history is limited to what I can do online with very rare trips to Birmingham

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1837 (>99%)
Meatyard William St. James Westr. 1 102

Marriages Dec 1837 (>99%)
COOK Hannah St.James Westr. 1 102
COOKE Sophia St.James,Westr. 1 102
HENERY Mary St.Jas.Westminster 1 102
Hodges Richard Edward St James Westr 1 102
Meatyard William St. James Westr. 1 102
RICHARDSON James St Jas Westmr 1 102
SHELTON Maria St. James, Westminster 1 102


I presume that at the time of his remarriage, William was a widower. Note to buy certificate some day. Fortunately, I believe that it was his marriage to Maria which produced Oswald George (Sidney's father).

I am toying with the idea of asking on the Birmingham History Forum if there is anyone on there who knew Sidney and maybe even Lizzie and Kate. I have found out from the 1911 that Sidney and Lizzie lived in the same road as Kate's family. I have to wonder again about their relationship.

The Muckley's must have known Sidney well. Not only from the art connections but because of the glass industry. I'm assuming from the marriage by Special License that Lizzie was pregnant. Nothing shows on FreeBMD that I can find for a possible child so again I am assuming that she lost the child.

Even though hubby's family has no connection beyond Kate's marriage to Sidney, I'm on a mission to build this tree. I've been through Stourbridge many times and seen articles about Stourbridge glass. I've been interested in the history of Birmingham and its art and I never knew how connected I would become to it. Kate's family were in the jewellery business and my daughter is into making jewellery. I feel like I have an amazing circle of people to put into context and explain so many connections.

This from Wiki about Lizzie Muckley's family.

William Jabez Muckley (March 23, 1829 – August 30, 1905) was a noted English artist who was born at Wordsley, Kingswinford, in Staffordshire. He was the eldest of the seven children of Jabez Muckley who was a glass artisan.
William Jabez Muckley began his career as a glasscutter with W.H. B. & J. Richardson of Wordsley and became their principal designer and engraver. When only 22, he was responsible for much of the engraving that earned the firm considerable praise in the Great Exhibition of 1851. After the Richardson glass firm was declared insolvent in 1852 Muckley joined the Birmingham School of Art. He won one of the eight scholarships competed for by students at all the art schools in Britain. He went on to study in London and Paris and obtained four art degrees of the highest class.
He was head of the Burslem School of Art for five years in the late 1850s and then went on to be headmaster of Wolverhampton School of Art. In 1862 he became principal of Manchester School of Art. He exhibited at the Royal Academy 1859–1904 and at Suffolk Street, the Royal Institution and Grosvenor Gallery.
In 1878 he wrote The Student's Manual of Artistic Anatomy, with 25 plates of the bones and surface muscles of the human figure, together with a description of the origin, insertion and use of the muscles, and in 1882 wrote A Handbook for Painters and Art Students about the character, nature and use of colours, their permanent or fugitive qualities and the proper vehicles to employ, also short remarks on the practice of painting in oil and water colours, and wrote two other books.
Muckley retired to White Notley Hall, Witham, Essex about 1900 and died at home in 1905.
[edit]Family

Muckley’s father Jabez was at various times a glasscutter, a glassworks manager and a glass importer. His younger brother Joseph Fairfax Muckley was the engraver of the very fine Muckley Goblet[1] on display in Birmingham Museum & Art Gallery (Accession No. 1937M744), although some sources attribute this to William Jabez Muckley himself.
William’s son Angelo Fairfax Muckley (1859–1920) was also an artist who illustrated many published works.
A nephew, Louis Fairfax Muckley, (1862–1926) also illustrated books, most notably the 1897 Dent edition of The Faerie Queene by Edmund Spenser. A couple of Pre-Raphaelite examples of Louis Fairfax Muckley's work (attributed by some to Angelo Fairfax Muckley) are at [1]. "Autumn" was bought in, after an estimate of £20-30,000, at Christie's London in June 2003.

Jill


His first wife seems to have been called Martha :-D



This is from ancestry


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Georgiana Meatyard

Name: Georgiana Meatyard
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 9 Jan 1820
Father's Name: William Meatyard
Mother's Name: Martha Meatyard
Parish or Poor Law Union: St George Hanover Square
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Bishop's Transcript

from image:-

Address:- Mount Street
Father's occupation:- Upholder



sylvia

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Sarah Meatyard

Name: Sarah Meatyard
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 16 Jun 1822
Father's Name: William Meatyard
Mother's Name: Martha Meatyard
Parish or Poor Law Union: St George Hanover Square
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Bishop's Transcript

Address:- Mount Street
Father's occupation:- Upholsterer <<<< that's better than Upholder!!!!


Name: Robert William Baker Meatyard
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 30 Nov 1824
Father's Name: William Meatyard
Mother's Name: Martha Meatyard
Parish or Poor Law Union: St George Hanover Square
Borough:Westminster
Register Type: Bishop's Transcript


Name: Thomas William Meatyard
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 25 Oct 1828
Father's Name: William Meatyard
Mother's Name: Martha Meatyard
Parish or Poor Law Union: St George Hanover Square
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Bishop's Transcript


Name: Emma Meatyard
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 12 May 1830
Father's Name: William Meatyard
Mother's Name: Martha Meatyard
Parish or Poor Law Union: St George Hanover Square
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Bishop's Transcript


Name: Maria Meatyard
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 18 Oct 1832
Father's Name: William Meatyard
Mother's Name: Martha Meatyard
Parish or Poor Law Union: St George Hanover Square
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Bishop's Transcript


all above same mother, same address, and same occupation.


???????

Name: Thomas Meatyard
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 20 Oct 1839
Father's Name: William Meatyard
Mother's Name: Mary Meatyard
Parish or Poor Law Union: Tooting Graveney
Borough: Wandsworth
Register Type: Parish Registers

Address:- Tooting
Father occupation:- Labourer


??????

England & Wales Christening Records, 1530-1906 about Charles Plummer Meatyard

Name: Charles Plummer Meatyard
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 26 Oct 1834
Christening Place: Stourpaine, Dorset, England
Father's Name: William Meatyard
Mother's Name: Maria



sylvia

I wonder if the "Baker" in Robert William's name has any meaning??

One Public Family Tree on ancestry has the following information. They don't say where from ......... but maybe it will give you some ideas as to where to look, and dig. Thier connection seems to be either Georgiana (only child shown with Martha) and/or Oswald (only child shown with Maria)



HEPBURN Family Tree
Owner: bursar7030

William MEATYARD

Birth 16 Oct 1792 in Hanover Square, London
Death 1850 in St Georges Hanover Square, London

1794 29 Sep
Baptism
St Georges Hanover Square, London

1814 5 Jul
Age: 21
Marriage to Martha NICHOLS
Westminster, London

1837 IV
Age: 45
Marriage to Maria SHELTON
St James Westminster, London, England




Martha NICHOLS
Birth 1793
Death 1837 in Hanover Square, London


Parents

Robert MEATYARD
Sarah THOMPSON




sylvia

????????????????????/


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Martha Nichols

Name: Martha Nichols
Spouse Name: William Meatyard
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 5 Jul 1814
Parish: Westminster St Margaret
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Bishop's Transcript


from image:-

William .............. Bachelor of this Parish

Martha ............... Spinster of this Parish

married by Banns

Witnesses:- Chas. Letta ??or Setta) and Elizabeth Jane White


all could sign their names.



and Pallot's also has it .................


Pallot's Marriage Index for England: 1780 - 1837 about Martha Nichols

Name: Martha Nichols
Spouse: Wm Meatyard
Marriage Date: 1814
Parish: Westminster, Middlesex





sylvia

EEEEEK.

Sylvia.

Millions of thank yous. I didn't believe for one minute that I would find out who William's first wife was. I mean, I knew there was a chance if I could someday find the right records to go through but I wasn't thinking it would happen any time soon.

You are brilliant.

I hope to get stuck into the family again over the weekend.

:-D <3 :-D <3 :-D <3 :-D <3 :-D <3 :-D <3

do you want me to see if I can dig any further????

Susan,

Can you reveal the names?

Rose

Oh yes please.

Anything would be brilliant. From what I have worked out, the name was spelt Meatyard for most of the 1800s. It seems to be around Sidney's time that it became Meteyard.

I did pick up on something a few weeks ago which suggested that the surname evolved from Meechyard or Meechard so I've kept those variations in mind.

Thank you ever so much again.

xxJ

(just throwing these below in your pot Jill, if any connection later!)

Marriage
1745 MEATIARD WM CRAVEN MGT WESTMINSTER ST JAMES PALACE CHAPEL MIDDLESEX MIDDLESEX


http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/wills.htm

(above link has below £3.36 to download)

Description: Will of Margaret otherwise Margret Meatyard, Widow of Saint Saviour Southwark , Surrey Date: 20 January 1778

Chris :)

Just posting this as a reference point for me


1841 Census

Name: William Meatyard
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1796
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St George Hanover Square
Hundred: Westminster
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub-registration district: Mayfair

William Meatyard 45 Upholsterer
Maria Meatyard 30 b.ca 1811, Middlesex
Georgina Meatyard 20 b.ca 1821, Middlesex
Robt Meatyard 17 b.ca 1824, Middlesex, Upholder (??should be Upholsterer)
Thomas Meatyard 14 b.ca 1827, Middlesex, Coachmaker
Emma Meatyard 11 b.ca 1830, Middlesex
Maria Meatyard 9 b.ca 1832, Middlesex
Oswell Meatyard 3 b.ca 1838, Middlesex
Sarah Meatyard 1 b.ca 1840, Middlesex

Address:- Mount Street


Also shown as living in another part of the same house .....

Robert Greenshu (??Greenshaw) 16 b.ca 1825, Middlesex, Upholder



Note that there was also the baptism of a Sarah Meatyard, b.ca 1822




sylvia

The Sarah b. 1822, died while a child


London, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1980 about Sarah Meatyard

Name: Sarah Meatyard
Record Type: Burial
Estimated Death Date: abt 1827
Burial Date: 17 Jul 1827
Age: 5 Years 3 Months
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Parish or Poor Law Union: St George Hanover Square
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Bishop's Transcript

Address:- Mount Street


The second Sarah, b.ca 1840, married in 1860 ................

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Sarah Meatyard

Name: Sarah Meatyard
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Age: 21
Spouse Name: William Baker
Spouse Age: 24
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 17 Jun 1860
Parish: Chelsea Christ Church
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Father Name: William Meatyard
Spouse Father Name: Henry Baker
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

William Baker
Bachelor
Age:- 24
Address:- 14 Wood Street, Marlborough Road, Chelsea
Occupation:- Upholsterer
Father's occupation:- Steward

Sarah
Spinster
Age:- 21
no occupation shown
Address:- 6 (or 16 or 8) Halsey Street
Father: late William Meatyard, Upholsterer

Witnesses:- Oswald George Meatyard and Elizabeth Meatyard

That family tree had Robert Meatyard and Sarah Thompshon as William's parents.


I'm trying to find the evidence for it.

Here is the marriage of a Robert Meatyard and a Sarah Thompson ..............


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Robert Meatyard

Name: Robert Meatyard
Spouse Name: Sarah Thompson
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 1 Jun 1793
Parish: St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

Bachelor and Spinster, of this Parish

Married by Banns

Witnesses:- Richard Boxall and Thos Bird


Richard made his mark, and Sarah could write


Thos Bird signed 3 other entries (out of 6), so was probably what is called a "professional witness" ...... ie someone paid a small amount to sign the registers if a couple did not have any witnesses of their own.

Just noticed ................



that marriage for Robert and Sarah Thompson on 1 June 1793 is AFTER the birth for William, given on that Family Tree as 16 Oct 1792 in Hanover Square, London


I can find no trace of William's baptism ........ or indeed of any children of Robert and Sarah!

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Robert William Meatyard

Name: Robert William Meatyard
Age: Full Age
Spouse Name: Ann Lang Longbray
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 18 Dec 1845
Parish: Wapping
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: William Meatyard
Spouse Father Name: Charles Longbray
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

Robert
Of Full Age
Bachelor
Occupation:- Upholsterer
Address:- St John's Wapping
Father Occupation:- Upholsterer

Ann
A Minor
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- St John's Wapping
Father occupation:- Coachmaker

Married after Banns

Witnesses:- Charles Groom and Edward Spon (??sp)


Edward Spon signed as witness on all 4 of the entries in the Register .......... so again was probably a "professional witness".



Robert signed Robert Baker William Meatyard. The number 2 was written above Baker, and number 1 above William ..................... ???? to indicate the correct order of the names???????




sylvia

This is probably Thomas William ...................


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about William Meatyard

Name: William Meatyard
Age: Full Age
Spouse Name: Harriett Hoar
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 26 Mar 1846
Parish: St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: William Meatyard
Spouse Father Name: William Hoar
Register Type: Parish Register


from image:-

William
Of Full Age
Bachelor
Occupation:- Servant
Address:- Charles Street
Father occupation:- Upholder

Harriett
Full Age
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- 47 Paddington Street
Father occupation:- Labourer

Married after Banns

Witnesses:- James Lunn ( x His Mark) and Elizabeth Camford (???sp)



London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Georgina Meatyard

Name: Georgina Meatyard
Spouse Name: John Alexander Cumming
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 31 Jan 1851
Parish: Bryanston Square St Mary
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: William Meatyard
Spouse Father Name: John Cumming
Register Type: Parish Register

from image........

Georgina
Of Full Age
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- 202 Oxford Street
Father occupation:- deceased; Upholsterer

John
Of Full Age
Bachelor
Watchmaker
Address:- 202 Oxford Street
Father occupation:- Watchmaker

Married by Registrar's Certificate

Witnesses:- Henry Montagne and Mary Bowers (??or Bown)



found by googling ....................


Cumming, John Alexander, Watchmaker
John Alexander Cumming (son of John Cumming, Watchmaker, and his second wife Mary Caterer) was born 21 May 1823 and was a Watchmaker in or near Oxford Street, London. He married (1) 1851 Georgina Meatyard and (2)1855 Phoebe Augusta Boulton. His children were Phoebe 1855, John Gordon 1857, Charles Stuart 1860, Elizabeth Emma 1862 and George (b & d 1866). What happened to him after 1866 and his children (some of whom have been traced to 1892)



A Family Tree on ancestry says there was 1 child to John and Georgina .......

Georgina Cumming
Birth 14 Dec 1851 in 20 Adam St West, Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Death 1926 in Hendon, Middlesex, England

Married to Edwin Humphrey Fowle 20 Jan 1881
Marylebone, Middlesex, England

They have photo and certificate, so seems pretty accurate.


Georgina Meatyard died in 1851, in childbirth??

???????

probably Emma b. 1830 ......... she's on the 1851, with John Lilley, b. ca 1831. John is 66 in 1851


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Emma Meatyard

Name: Emma Meatyard
Spouse Name: John Lilley
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 20 May 1873
Parish: Hampstead St Stephen the Martyr
Borough: Camden
Father Name: William Meatyard
Spouse Father Name: George Lilley
Register Type: Parish Register


from image:-

Emma
Of Full Age
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- St John's Wood Terrace
Father occupation:- Upholsterer

John
Of Full Age
Bachelor
Upholsterer
Address:- St John's Wood Terrace
Father occupation:- Grocer

Married by License

Witnesses:- William Meatyard and James Edward Nightingale


?? the witness William Meatyard being her brother????

Do you have this one???


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Oswald George Meatyard

Name: Oswald George Meatyard
Age: Full Age
Spouse Name: Emma Maria Rutland
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 15 Sep 1864
Parish: Chelsea St Simon Zelotes
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Father Name: William Meatyard
Spouse Father Name: William Rutland
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

Oswald
Full Age
Bachelor
Occupation:- Mercantile Clerk
Address:- 12 Milner St. Chelsea
Father occupation:- Deceased, Mercantile Clerk ??????

Emma
Full Age
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- 3 Halsey St, Chelsea
Father occupation:- Deceased, Saddler

After Banns

Witnesses:- 4 of them, and I cannot decipher even one!!



London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Joseph Benjamin Meatyard

Name: Joseph Benjamin Meatyard
Age: Full Age
Spouse Name: Fanny Buels
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 3 Apr 1864
Parish: St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: William Meatyard
Spouse Father Name: Francis Buels
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

Joseph
Full Age
Bachelor
Occupation:- Clerk at a Glass Works
Address:- St Marylebone
Father occupation:- Upholsterer

Fanny
Full Age
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- as above
Father occupation:- formerly a Launderer

after Banns

Witnesses:- F Buels and M Buels



???????

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about George Meatyard

Name: George Meatyard
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849
Age: 26
Spouse Name: Caroline Anne Paine
Spouse Age: 24
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 16 Feb 1875
Parish: Chelsea St Luke
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Father Name: William George Meatyard
Spouse Father Name: Edward Paine
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

George
Bachelor
Occupation:- Clerk
Address:- 156 Oakley Street
Father occupation:- Deceased, Clerk

Caroline
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- 73 Church Street
Father occupation:- Deceased, Farmer

after Banns

Witnesses:- (indecipherable) and Sarah A Burbank


I think William might have died when they were so young that neither Oswald nor George knew his occupation, and guessed at Clerk????

William and Maria Shelton married before registration began.

I cannot find their marriage on ancestry, to see what he said about his status.

This is from familysearch.org/ ............


"England, Marriages, 1538–1973 ," Maria Shelton, 1837

groom's name: William Meatgard
groom's birth date:
groom's birthplace:
groom's age:
bride's name: Maria Shelton
bride's birth date:
bride's birthplace:
bride's age:
marriage date: 25 Nov 1837
marriage place: Saint James,Westminster,London,England
groom's father's name: Robert Meatgard
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name: William Shelton
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: M14751-7
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 1042320
reference number:
Citing this Record

"England, Marriages, 1538–1973 ," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NKNF-9XD : accessed 16 Oct 2012), William Meatgard and Maria Shelton, 25 Nov 1837; citing reference , FHL microfilm 1042320.



I think that gives you the evidence that William's father was called Robert ............. but no evidence for his mother!!




sylvia