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According to FreeBMD John Penfold and Eleanor Priaulx married in Reigate district in 1855. I can't find her in the1851 census. John Penfold in 1851 is 27, a cordwainer, born Patcham, Sussex, unmarried and living in Brighton with his parents James and Fanny Penfold. In 1861 he is 37, living in Brighton with wife Eleanor 35, born Brighton and 7 children, the oldest James aged 12 born Brighton. Rather bafflingly, IGI gives the christening of James Peter Penfold 28 July 1850, parents John Penfold and Eleanor, in Ardingly, Sussex, not in Brighton. I can't find James in 1851 either, but maybe he's listed as James Priaulx in whatever variant the name has been transcribed as! Or maybe this John Penfold and Eleanor Priaulx aren't mine at all! Any help gratefully received!

Looking at ancestry Public Family trees .... which, of coruse, cannot always be depended on!! ............... there seem to be TWO John Penfolds born ca 1823 in Patcham, Sussex

One has parents John and Ann(e), and he married Charlotte Goddard Kinshit.

This one seems to have been an Ag Lab (1841) or Beer Seller (1851). He died in 1858


The other has parents James and Frances (or Fanny) Foord, and he married Eleanor.

One tree says that this John married Eleanor (no surname) in 1848, she died in 1862, and he then married Jane Elliott, 10 Aug 1866, St John's, Keymer, Sussex

This John was a Shoemaker




sylvia

so, in 1851, we have the one you think is yours ............

1851 Census

Name: John Penfold
[John Pendfold]
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1824
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Penfold
Mother's Name: Fanny Penfold
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Patcham, Sussex, England

Civil parish: Brighton
Town: Brighton
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Registration district: Brighton
Sub-registration district: St Peter

James Penfold 62 Wheelwright
Fanny Penfold 61
John Penfold 27 Cordwainer
Richard Penfold 23
Herb Burtenshaw 13 Grandaughter <<<<<< corrected by someone to Elizabeth
Ann Burtenshaw 7 Granddaughter
John Fred 15 Nephew <<<<<< corrected by someone to Foord

Address:- 4 Belmont Place


and this is the other one ...................

Name: John Penfold
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Charg Penfold
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Pubcham, Sussex, England
[Patcham, Sussex, England]

Civil parish: Brighthelmstone
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Registration district: Brighton
Sub-registration district: Kemp Town

John Penfold 26 Beer Seller
Charg Penfold 25 <<<< name corrected to Mary
Charg Penfold 5 <<<<< name corrected to Mary
John Penfold 3



.................. forgot to say in the previous post that according to one ancestry tree, this John first married Charlotte on 20 April 1845, then married Mary Elphick on 13 July 1850. Charlotte died Sept quarter 1849.




sylvia

This looks as though it is James Peter's birth registration ................. Cuckfield is the Registration District that includes Ardingley.



Births Sep 1850 (>99%)

Penfold James Peter Cuckfield 7 364




as you may be able to tell .................. I'm fishing around!!!




sylvia

sorry ...... can't find anything else

John Penfold didn't marry Eleanor Priaulx.

Marriages Mar 1855
BEDFORD George Augustus Reigate 2a 122
Penfold John Reigate 2a 122 <<<<<
Priaulx Eleanor Reigate 2a 122
RICE Eliza Reigate 2a 122 <<<<<


England Marriages, 1538–1973
spouse: Eliza Rice
groom's name: John Penfold
bride's name: Eliza Rice
marriage date: 03 Mar 1855
marriage place: Reigate,Surrey,England
indexing project (batch) number: M05470-1


spouse: Eleanor Priaula
groom's name: George Augustus Bedford
bride's name: Eleanor Priaula
marriage date: 14 Feb 1855
marriage place: Reigate,Surrey,England
indexing project (batch) number: M05470-1


So Linda, where are you coming from? Which child of John & Eleanor is in the tree you're researching? Is it James?

What is the earliest FACT you have about the family you are following? Do you have a birth or marriage cert, or a family bible, or other papers?


Ozi

Good find, Ozi!


Although John Penfold is married to an Eleanor on the 1861 Census

Name: John Penfold
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1824
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eleanor Penfold
Gender: Male
Where born: Patcham, Sussex, England

Civil parish: Brighton
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Registration district: Brighton
Sub-registration district: St Peter

John Penfold 37 Shoe Maker
Eleanor Penfold 35 b.ca 1826, Brighton, Sussex, Shoe Binder
James Penfold 12
Mary Penfold 9
John Penfold 8
Eliza Penfold 6
Sarah Ann Penfold 4
Rosina Penfold 2
Alfred Penfold 4 Months

Address:- 36 Brunswick Street


all children born Brighton





sylvia

according to a tree on ancestry

Eliza Jarvis Rice married John Penfold on 3 march 1855

BUT


this John Penfold was born 22 Sep 1833 in Horley, Surrey, England
and died 23 Jul 1912 in Horley, Surrey, England

They had 10 children


the tree seems to be documented reasonably well.


John and Eliza in 1861

1861 Census

Name: John Penfold
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza Penfold
Gender: Male
Where born: Horley, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Horley
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Registration district: Reigate
Sub-registration district: Horley

John Penfold 27 Gardener/Domestic Servant
Eliza Penfold 26
Mary Ann Penfold 7
William Penfold 5
Thomas Penfold 3
James Penfold 11 Months

Address:- Fern Hill




sylvia

I saw this marriage earlier ....... and it made me wonder whether this Jon Penfold married this Eleanor ................... but then why did he say he was Single on the 1851, and where is Eleanor??? It would explain James Peter's birth


Marriages Dec 1846 (>99%)

?????Broad Eleanor Maidstone 5 494
Chainey Mary Maidstone 5 494
Huggins George Maidstone 5 494
Ottaway Charles Maidstone 5 494
?????Penfold John Maidstone 5 494
Rofe Martha Maidstone 5 494




sylvia

I'm wondering about this lady. Maybe way off track but..........

BLUNDEN, Ellener Head Widow F 25 1826 Good Intent (Beer Shop)
Brighton
Sussex VIEW
BLUNDEN, Ellener Daughter F 4 1847
Brighton
Sussex VIEW
BLUNDEN, James Son M 2 1849
Brighton
Sussex VIEW

Brighton Address:
1& 2, Richmond Square, Brighton County:
Sussex


Matching her with this birth for Eliza

Births Sep 1854 (>99%)
Blunden Eliza Penfold Brighton 2b 167

and Sarah Ann in 1857

Births Mar 1857 (>99%)

Blunden Sarah Ann Penfold Brighton 2b 220

YES!!


a possibilty ..........................

I noticed one of the trees on ancestry had

James Peter Penfold:- Blunden


but I couldn't find anything.


and James Blunden's birth ????


Births Mar 1849 (>99%)

BLUNDEN James Henry Brighton 7 349



ah no ......................


England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 for James Henry Blunden

Name: James Henry Blunden
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 20 May 1849
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Nicholas', Brighthelmston, Sussex, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: James Blunden
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Eleanor Blunden
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I04679-1
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1468824
Reference Number: item 1 p 252



sylvia

If this is John in 1871 now married to Jane and a Beermaker there is a daughter Alice born 1862/3

EDIT: Misread his occupation completely. It is Boot maker!


PENFOLD, John Head M 47 1824 Sussex VIEW
PENFOLD, Jane Wife F 41 1830 Sussex VIEW
PENFOLD, Sarah A Daughter F 14 1857 Sussex VIEW
PENFOLD, Alice Daughter F 8 1863 Sussex VIEW
PENFOLD, Annie Q Daughter F 3 1868 Sussex VIEW
PENFOLD, Frederick Son M 1 1870 Sussex VIEW

Civil Parish:
Brighton Municipal Borough:
Brighton Address:
Surrey Street, Brighton County:
Sussex


and the birth registration

Births Dec 1862 (>99%)
BLUNDEN Alice Penfold Brighton 2b 181

I wonder



The births of the two girls seem to match up with the oens on the 1861 Census for John Penfold, and Eleanor.


I've looked, and I cannot see a marriage for John and Eleanor Blunden.


I wonder if they didn't bother marrying?????




sylvia

???????? James Blunden and Eleanor's marriage??


Marriages Mar 1848 (>99%)

>>>>>>>>>Blunden James Steyning 7 591
Eggleton Ruth Mary Steyning 7 591
ELDRIDGE Charles Steyning 7 591
Jepson Samuel Steyning 7 591
SANDERSON Joseph Steyning 7 591
Sharp Sarah Brighton 7 591
Smith Sarah Jane Steyning 7 591
TEELING Caroline Elizabeth Steyning 7 591
>>>>>>>>>>WOOD Eleanor Steyning 7 591



??? James' death

Deaths Jun 1847 (>99%)

Blunden James Brighton 7 223

OR

Deaths Dec 1850 (>99%)

BLUNDEN James Brighton 7 224




?????????????????????????

can't see the death of an Eleanor Penfold BUT ......................

Deaths Mar 1868 (>99%)

Blunden Eleanor 44 Brighton 2b 148





sylvia

Have we cracked it?????


John Penfold did not marry Eleanor Priaulx, she married George Bedford.


John Penfold lived common-law with Eleanor Blunden, a widow with 2 children.


Did she die in 1862, or did the arrangement break up.

Is the death in 1868 her???



He married Jane Elliott in

Marriages Sep 1866 (>99%)

BETTS Alfred Cuckfield 2b 238
>>>>>Elliott Jane Cuckfield 2b 238
>>>>>PENFOLD John Cuckfield 2b 238
ROBINSON Elizabeth Cuckfield 2b 238





and now I must go to bed!! Our clocks go forward tonight ............ so it is either 12:30 am or 1:30 am now!!



sylvia

Think we may be there.

:-D :-D :-D :-D

Cracking detective work, ladies!

A perfect example of the folly of jumping to conclusions - in this case, who married whom.

Thanks Reggie.

Just still not sure about the Jane Elliott marriage in 1866. Not convinced it is the correct one.

Wow - fantastic work everyone! I need to print this off and read it all carefully. Thank you soo much.

Sarah Ann Penfold born 1857 is my great grandmother. I have her in 1891 with her husband Samuel Parks and children Alice (my grandmother) and Thomas sharing a house in Brighton with John and Jane Penfold, and in 1901 John Penfold, widowed, is living with Samuel and Sarah and the 2 children in Seaside, Eastbourne - which is where the family were living when my Dad and his sister were born. And John Penfold is described as bootmaker, born Patcham.

I was definitely coming to the conclusion that John and Eleanor weren't married. If James was her son from a previous marriage, he must have taken John's surname as in 1861 he's down as James Penfold. Or maybe the enumerator didn't ask too many questions but just put "ditto" under surname. Anyway, Ill now go away and read it all VERY carefully!

THANK YOU!!! :-)