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Family rumour has always held that my grandfather's father was connected to the gentry and it seems that Lord St Oswald, 1st Baron was MP prior to his death in 1893 and his office was linked to the post office in Appleby via a connecting door.

Just finding it interesting to discover that my grandfather, Oswald Day Gell's (1890 - 1930) adoptive father, George Thompson (1847 - 1907) and Charles Henry Thompson (circa 1860 - 1908) were both linked to the tailoring profession. George's father was a tailor (Thomas Thompson) in Glanford Brigg at the time of his son's birth, as was Charles (in Riby, Grimsby, Lincs at a gentleman's outfitters) prior to taking over the Appleby Post Office (1901, just prior to getting married to Mabel Hall, whose sister was cook to the Winn/Baron St Oswald family who owned Appleby House and Nostell Priory near Wakefield) from his father, John Thompson who was Minister, tailor and post master, it seems. I wonder if this is the link/relationship? Also, Charles William Gant was grocer and haberdasher in Ashby, Lincs and Oswald's mother (Esther Day Gell 1864 - 1896) was milliner (from at least 1881) in his business, and her elder sister Louisa was married to Charles William Gant. Maybe, the haberdashery/millinary links them further.
I have enquired of a retired archivist turned genealogist/researcher re the feasibility of the above. She has worked on my case before so I hope she can come up with something to move me forward.
Thanks,
Janet

Hi. Just to say that Algernon James Winn was intestate. I have the documentation. Thank you any way.
Janet

Thanks Kay. Rowland Winn was the name of the heirs to the title of Lord St Oswald. Their father, Rowland was the first baron St Oswald died 1893. A J. Winn left a lot less money in his will than his brothers. It would be an idea for me to get his will. I have his father’s will but it gives nothing away.
Thank you very much,
Janet

Doc True
WILLS AND BEQUESTS.
WILLS AND BEQUESTS.
William Phipps Winn. The late Major Winn named as executor of his will and as universal legate* bis brother, the Hon. Algernon James Winn, who died in the testator's lifetime. Administration has been announced by his mother Harriet Maria Amelia, Baroness
16 July 1898 - Morning Post - London, London, England.

have you thought to apply for a copy of AJ Winns will......his father was also named Oswald.

Winn Algernon James 1860 1894 1894 England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007 Hemsworth, Yorkshire, England

Hi Patchem,
Nothing definitive re a Thompson Appleby to Thompson Winterton connection, I don’t think. I believe Anthony Adolph began a search but I need to delve deeper. My Thompsons were mining/labourer stock so less likely to be connected to tailors and post office people, perhaps?
Any ideas please?
Thanks, Janet

Did you get any (private) answer to your question:

'Does anybody know if Charles Henry Thompson (d 1908) of Appleby, Lincs was a relative of George Thompson from Winterton Cheshire please?'

Thank you for all these replies. Most appreciated. I still haven't discovered Oswald Day Gell (Thompson's patronage, but a lot of interesting and helpful surrounding information. It seems all the children at the Winterton, Cheshire/Lincs. Thompson residency were 'adopted'!? Harry Stancer died a POW in Germany toward the end of WW1.
My maternal grandmother's father, George Beck may have taken up with another family in Kent. He had been thought, by family to have perished in the Titanic disaster....
FYI Janet x

Charles Henry and his wife ran the post office in Appleby in the late 1800's and said wife continued to run it after Charle's death in 1908. Lord Saint Oswald (d1893) had an adjoining office which seems telling to me as it has always been a rumour in my family that he or a member of his family was the father of my grand father, Oswald Day Gell (Thompson) (1890 - 1930). Can any one add anything here to bridge the gaps please? Thanks Janet :-)

Does anybody know if Charles Henry Thompson (d 1908) of Appleby, Lincs was a relative of George Thompson from Winterton Cheshire please? Circa 1890, when my grandfather was born to Esther Day Gell of Hemingby Lincs and at some point after the birth, he was shipped off to the said George Thompson and his wife as their adoptive son.

Thanks,
Janet M Gell Thompson :-)

Re large amounts of money - 2 lots of 80 pounds were given to the Thompsons' for the up keep and education of my grandfather. They are dated at different times of the year in 1893.

Anybody know anything re any of this so far please?
Thanks,
Janet :-)

The postmistress at Appleby in 1919 was Mabel Thompson. Her late husband was Charles Henry Thompson (d 1908). They had 3 sons and 2 daughter's. In 1901 Charles Henry was 35 years of age. In 1871 John Thompson was postmaster. The Thompson's kept this post office until about 1940 and Lord saint Oswald would have been involved in who kept it and one of his houses had a door through into the pops front room. He was MP etc and required confidentiality in this way. Mabel thompson's sister, Ellen Hall was cook at Nostell Priory, the Winn family's main seat) All this discovered to be the case soon after 1901.
Can anyone add to these findings please or comment to help further things along. My grandad, Oswald Day Gell (Thompson) was born in 1890 to Esther Day Gell of Hemingby, Lincs. and 'adopted' by the Thompson's in Cheshire around 1893 we think. A large sum of money exchanged hands at this juncture. etc.
Thanks,
Janet M Gell Thompson :-)

Patchem,

Yes. It would be good to get more proof of this being the case though, as there is always an element of doubt with only substantial possibility to go on. Any thoughts re the Bastardy Order idea?
Thanks,
Janet MG Thompson

Patchem,

Yes. It would be good to get more proof of this being the case though, as there is always an element of doubt with only substantial possibility to go on. Any thoughts re the Bastardy Order idea?
Thanks,
Janet MG Thompson

If the father was probably either of two brothers, for the sake of looking at ancestors it does not really matter, as the grandfather will be the same regardless, surely?

Having read the info re my grandfather, can anyone suggest ways of discovering patronage please?
Thanks Janet :-)

Any body got any suggestions re discovering patronage of an illegitimate child born in 1890, apart from DNA testing? I was told re Bonds of Bastardy, but also told re the unlikelihood that one will exist re my granddad, Oswald Day Gell Thompson. See thread for extra details please.

Thanks a lot,

Janet M Gell thompson

PS I wrote to the present Lord St Oswald and he replied, but he couldn't throw any light on my dilemma. :-)

In 1891 Oswald Day Gell was supposedly with the Thompsons' in Winterton, Cheshire? He was merely born at 15 Brown St Monks Coppenhall and yes, Rhoda was landlady then. His birth was registered there too. His mother, Esther Day Gell moved back to Hemingby Lincs swiftly after his birth and did not have him back there with her.
We would love to discover why he had to be named 'Oswald' Day Gell as this is not a family name in Esther's ancestry etc and they lived so near a Winn family residents in Appleby Lincs. then Yorks. Any way, the Lincs. archivist noted it as a substantial possibility that a 'Winn' of that period was the father in her report on seeing all our info to date.
She had a hunch that Rt. Hon. Algernon James Winn was the father. He was the 1st Baron's 4th son, I believe, but my dad always thought it was Charles Cavendish Winn - 3rd son at this time. They both died young like Esther around 1896.
Any info. gratefully received.
Thanks Janet M Gell Thompson. :-)

Thought you might like this
Esther Gell probate to Louisa Gant nee gell wife of Charles william gant £162 14s 2d.
Her mum harriett 1894 probate to John Maddison Gell £12 19s 8d
Thomas Bett Gell died 1876 probate widow Harriett under £200
1891 15 Brown Street Coppenhall monks D12 > 22
Rhoda Dean 1832 widow living on own means born Derby.
2 lodgers.

Rhoda Ellen Stonier married John Smith Dean 1853.

Where is Oswald in 1891???

Maryb.

Thanks so much. Appreciate this very much!

My grandfather Oswald Day Gell (Thompson) was born 1890 Monks Coppenhall, Crewe at 15 Brown Street. Esther Day Gell, his mother returned to Hemingby Lincs without him. We have papers which should have been destroyed noting 80.00 twice passing from Esther to the Thompsons in order to relinquish her (Esther) from all future responsibility for him. She died in 1896 from TB, as did he in 1930 wnem my dad was two and living in Bolsover Derbyshire. The papers also stipulated that my grandfather had to be named Oswald Day Gell. The rest is in the ordering of documentation and family word of mouth - may be rumour passed down over the years. A Dr. Baker was said to be involved in the 'adoption' - signing over penny stamp...& grandad was handed over at Ashby station by a uniformed nurse. Esther died leaving a lot of money. She was the youngest daughter of a Wheelwright!? HOpe this helps further and all the above is correct and yes you all have the correct people.
Thanks again,
Janet Mary Gell Thompson. :-)

Thanks so much. Appreciate this very much!

My grandfather Oswald Day Gell (Thompson) was born 1890 Monks Coppenhall, Crewe at 15 Brown Street. Esther Day Gell, his mother returned to Hemingby Lincs without him. We have papers which should have been destroyed noting 80.00 twice passing from Esther to the Thompsons in order to relinquish her (Esther) from all future responsibility for him. She died in 1896 from TB, as did he in 1930 wnem my dad was two and living in Bolsover Derbyshire. The papers also stipulated that my grandfather had to be named Oswald Day Gell. The rest is in the ordering of documentation and family word of mouth - may be rumour passed down over the years. A Dr. Baker was said to be involved in the 'adoption' - signing over penny stamp...& grandad was handed over at Ashby station by a uniformed nurse. Esther died leaving a lot of money. She was the youngest daughter of a Wheelwright!? HOpe this helps further and all the above is correct and yes you all have the correct people.
Thanks again,
Janet Mary Gell Thompson. :-)