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you must be friends with Harry's daughter - Harry was Caroline;s son. we have been in touch and you have more information than I have, it is such a mystery. thanks for your information
Julia

I am also tracing George to no avail. My friends gran was Caroline Jessica Rosina Olive 18/01/1900 daughter of George Olive and Cecilia Howes. I have tried to sum up info.
5th January 1873 the Banns were read for George Olive and Secilia Howes at Hoxton St Johns but no marriage took place !!!!
Instead on 15th December 1875 Cecilia married William Thomas Maynard at Bethnal Green St Thomas. (7 months pregnant)
Daughter Esther Maynard Born 06/04/1875 and Baptised 23/04/1875 Hoxton St Mary.
Daughter Hannah Celia Maynard born 1877.

1881 census shows both children living with their grandparents Edward and Hannah Howes.
Where is Cecilia and William or George Olive?? (George might be living with an Elizabeth but no marriage)

1891 census Celia is living with George Olive (who the Banns were read with before her marriage) and states married but no marriage found and presumably she is still married to William Maynard. Hannah aged 12 is under the name Howes but Esther had died in 1883.
George and Celia have Sarah 3, Mary Ann 2 and George 1.
1901 census shows the family living at 60 Ely Place Shoreditch.

Hannah Maynard marries Henry Charles King. Her father is stated as William Maynard deceased. Her address given is 60 Ely Place Hoxton as per 1901 census for George and Cecilia.

1911 census shows George and Cecilia as being married 25 years 8 children 2 died and 6 alive. No marriage found though. (1 child died was Esther who was the other?)

All the children were baptised in 1900 (maybe because parents were not married
:-D

bump

the other thing i just thought of and might be why the maynard family were split up in 1881 was if william was convicted of a crime and had been deported for a short while. it would also explain the gaps in their children. Esther 1877, Hannah 1878 and then Thomas not until 1883 but i dont know how you can check this. :-S

sorry mike and meg, my computor gave out last night and i couldnt reply to any more messages. Cecilia/celia's father was indeed Edward that is why i thought that george's father could have been Henry as Henry and Sarah feature heavily in descendants names. I will have to look into my research again to find where celia was in 1881 as i did find her as a visitor. i couldnt find William. The person i am more trying to tie up is George. if i could follow the family of henry, sarah, sarah, henry and george from 1851 it might tie in but i cannot find anything. thanks for all your help this is my last hope of trying to resolve this line. Julia

Just settling my own question ... Celia's father not Henry so looking favourable that George's father was

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1854
Howes Celia - St Luke 1b 547

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CELIA HOWES ----------
Event(s):
Birth: 09 JAN 1854

Christening: 29 JAN 1854 Saint Thomas Chartrhouse, Finsbury, London, England

Parents:
Father: EDWARD HOWES
Mother: HANNAH

So Tom not on 1881 if only born 1883.

William and Celia were still together in 1881 then ?

Ah, Thomas not born till 1883.

Where is Cecilia in 1881?

Not finding Cecilia in 1881 - Julia please post these census records, we are going round in circles.

Like Mike, not finding William and Thomas either.

thomas born in 1883. esther died same year. sorry tom on 1891 census with william. dont know why hannah listed as howes as birth cert def. maynard

So Hannah wasn't born Maynard, but elder sister Ester was?

HOWES, Edward Head Married M 55 1826
Waterstock
Oxfordshire VIEW
HOWES, Hannah Wife Married F 49 1832
London, London
Middlesex VIEW
HOWES, Joseph Son Single M 23 1858
London, London
Middlesex VIEW
HOWES, Geo Son Single M 19 1862
London, London
Middlesex VIEW
HOWES, Hannah Daughter Single F 10 1871
London, London
Middlesex VIEW
HOWES, Thomas Son Single M 11 1870
London, London
Middlesex VIEW
MAYNAD, Esther Granchild Single F 5 1876
London, London
Middlesex VIEW
HOWES, Hannah C Granchild Single F 4 1877
London, London
Middlesex VIEW

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Piece:
386 Folio:
29 Page:
56 Registration District:
Shoreditch

Civil Parish:
Shoreditch Municipal Borough:
Address:
10, Sarah Street, Shoreditch County:
London, Middlesex

Think this was just a mistake?

How did you determine the 3 siblings?

The Thomas on the 1881 census posted previously must be this one...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


THOMAS JAMES MAYNARD --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 12 JAN 1873 Hove, Sussex, England

Christening:
Death: 10 JAN 1961
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Parents:
Father: WILLIAM MAYNARD
Mother: CECELIA MOBSBY



But you say that there was a son Thomas to your Celia ?
When was he born ?
(still looking for them in 1881)

Then maybe whoever registered his death added Henry in error which would account for not being able to find a birth for George Henry.


He called his sons George and Henry after himself and maybe his father ( unless Celia's father was Henry ?)

just george on childrens birth and marriages but named sons george and henry

the birth certi just said george. the death cert said george henry

So does George's name appear anywhere as George Henry apart from his death cert ?

Children's birth certs, marriages etc ... is he always just George ?

sorry computor on go slow. the 1881 for maynards in surrey wrong one <3

right, my ggrandmother was born sarah olive in 1887 father george olive mother celia/cecili olive formally maynard nee howes. i have her parents. she married wiliam maynard in 1875 and i have found 3 children, hannah, ester and thomas. in 1881 hannah and ester were living with their grandparents, tom with his father, cecelia with friends. poss george living with eliza. i hope this helps <3

I posted the 1875 marriage

which is why I ask.....

William and Thomas Maynard were born before Cecelia married. Were they her husband's children or were they born as Howes ?

Probably the right birth

Name: MAYNARD, Hannah Celia
Registration district: [?] Holborn
County: London
Year of registration: 1878
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no:[?] 1B
Page no:[?]816