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Hi again Lorraine,
I've just been re-reading the posts on your puzzling Annie Douch and, to be honest, I am still quite confused. You seemed to think your Annie might be Alice Gore/Douch. Why would she be known as Alice? Do you have a middle name for Annie - was she Annie Alice?

If Annie said her father John Douch was deceased when she married in 1916, unless she was lying he can't be the Camberwell John Douch as he didn't die till 1921.

Someone mentioned a marriage between Rosie Douch and Harold Collins in 1911 and wondered if that could be Rosina Lydia Douch. Afraid not, as she died aged 2 in 1879.

Have you checked out the Annie Douch who is in the Whitechapel Union Workhouse in 1891? Her age is given as 17 which would make a birth around 1874 but her age may not be exactly right. More important is her birthplace of Horsebridge, Sussex. Looking at the maps this is only about 10 miles from Eastbourne.

Don't give up hope. After 7 years of research I found out where my great grandfather disappeared to after the 1881 census. It took a bit of lateral thinking and a leap of faith but I found him eventually and, with luck, you'll find Annie.

Vera

Lorraine - DO get back in touch with Vera and then come back to us !!

It sounds like she has some useful info.

Dea Xxx

Hi Lorraine,
I don't often look at the message boards but "My Updates" showed you had posted a message about John Douch b.1848 so I had a quick look. What a pity you didn't contact me again (we were in touch about 3 months ago about Florence Annie Douch) as I could have saved you a bit of look-up time. I'm a direct descendent of John Douch and have quite a bit of info. about the family.

To start with the earliest ones you mention John & Elizabeth Douch. These are John Douch b.1824 and Elizabeth Elsegood b. about 1824. They married in 1845 and, as far as I know, only had two children Mary Ann b. 1845 and John James b. 1848. Mary Ann married Thomas Schroder with whom she had 9 children and later married Henry Tout, a widower with one child.

John James Douch (1848) married two Mary Anns. First Mary Ann Russell and had three children with her, Joseph, John and Elizabeth. After her death he married Mary Ann Gore (nee Best) a widow with one child Alice. John and Mary Ann Gore then had a further 6 children, one of whom was my grandmother. Alice can be a bit confusing as she is sometimes shown under her birth name of Alice Gore and sometimes under her stepfather's name as Alice Douch. She married James Wright in 1895 under the name of Alice Gore.

I've tried, without success, to find a link between the Lambeth/Camberwell Douch family and the Horsham Douch family. I know my John Douch was also a bricklayer but that could just be coincidence.

A thought has just struck me - could your Annie Douch that married Henry Light have been fostered or adopted and just taken on the Douch name from the family that took her in, so that her birth is registered under a totally different name If she was illegitimate she would have been registered in her mother's name, regardless of whether the father was known or not. Could her mother have later married a Douch?

I don't know if any of this helps or hinders, but I wish you luck in your search.
Best wishes, Vera

hi dea and maureen
not upset one bit
thank you for at least having a look , she is a woman of mystory
i ordered the death and marriage cert in the hope it would give some info that would lead to finding her birth or her in the 1891 and 1881 but i just could not find anything
it makes me wonder if the john douch she called dad was using a middle name instead of his first name as i cant find a john douch that has an alice or annie douch that fits her
i could not find another douch family that fitted either , i have no idear who her mum is i wish they listed mums on cert too
many thanks once again and if anyone has any idears send them my way
lorraine xxxx

Are you sure it didn't get washed away?? ;-)

I had something earlier but have lorst it just for the moment!

I will work my way backwards.........................

Dea Xxx

Me too - but I am not giving up yet !!! :-D

Dea Xxx

Gosh-it's like a needle in a haystack when you're not sure of anything (age,place of birth or her name!).

I'm truly stumped.

Sorry,
Maureen

Hope you won't mind Lorraine and that I haven't offended you but I find your message very difficult to read without any spaces so I have split it down a bit so I can read it more easily:

hi dea
i hope you are ok
men lol them and water dont mix

annie douch married henry light on the 12th july 1916 in the register office horsham sussex
she signed her name annie douch he marked with a x - done in the presence of elizabeth ripley (his sister elizabeth light) and her husband thomas ripley

She is listed as a spinster aged 36 he is a bachelor aged 40 both living 146 crawley road horsham
she has no prefession he is a general lab

Her dad is john douch a bricklayer deacesed his dad is thomas light also deaseased a general lab.

What is strange is all the lights family were married at all saints church in roffey but she was done in the registry office ????

She has children with henry light from 1901 onwards so they were not married when they had 70 percent of there children .
My grandads siblings were horrified when they found out lol

I have both the marriage and death cert but they give no other info she did not talk about her family and no one can remember her mums name etc etc so thats not helpful

She did lie about her age and she also lied about her childrens ages and when her son my grandad died my mum and sisters thought he was one age and his sons my mums brothers had 2 ages of there own so my mum and sisters got there way and put the age on his death cert and grave.
When i found his death record my uncle les was right and he died with the wrong age by 8 years lol.

My grandad albert light was also unsure when he was born as for all his life he had had 2 birthdays - we joked he was like the queen lol.

He celebrated just before xmas and in the summer he was achually born 7th dec 1913 address is 136 crawley road horsham but on his birth record she has her info annie light mother marked with a cross and he signed his name - so the other way to there marriage record - and she calls herself annie light mother even though she is not married at this time and she is listed as annie light formerly douch in other collum .

Her death annie light was on the 2nd sept 1954 at 146 crawley road horsham aged 76 a widow of henry light market gardener it was in the presence of her daughter mary grey of 59 comptons lane horsham registered 3 sept 1954

she died of coronary thrombosis , myocardial degeneration and chronis bronchitis .

hope this helps abit - on my grandads sisters birth record she is listed as surname daitch - charity light mums name daitch - on record she calls herself annie light formally daitch ,

i know the surname douch changes but we just cant find her birth record from the info off the childrens births and her marriage and death
any info would be great even if its a lead to check out as we really are stuck

many thanks lorraine

...................

Dea x

hi
in the 1901 and 1911 census records she is listed as ann light married to henry light living in star road horsham she says she was born in 1878 and 1882 and it was in eastbourne and easthouse both sussex . all childrens births are listed like they were married even though for most of them they were not . my grandads siblings who are alive and my nans sisters who knew her said she was born in hastings east sussex and eastbourne sussex and she went by the names alice annie and ann and anne and her age varied year by year and she used to say she lived at other places rather than give her real address and her children were made older or younger depending on the year etc and they had birthdays when she said it was there day lol hence why my grandad went to his grave not knowing when he was born and is now buried with the wrong age and date of birth .
hope this helps
many thanks lorraine

hi dea
i hope you are ok
men lol them and water dont mix
annie douch married henry light on the 12th july 1916 in the register office horsham sussex
she signed her name annie douch he marked with a x
done in the presence of elizabeth ripley (his sister elizabeth light) and her husband thomas ripley
she is listed as a spinster aged 36 he is a bachelor aged 40 both living 146 crawley road horsham
she has no prefession he is a general lab
her dad is john douch a bricklayer deacesed his dad is thomas light also deaseased a general lab what is strange is all the lights family were married at all saints church in roffey but she was done in the registry office ????
but she has children with henry light from 1901 onwards so they were not married when they had 70 percent of there children and my grandads siblings were horrified when they found out lol
i have both the marriage and death cert but they give no other info she did not talk about her family and no one can remember her mums name etc etc so thats not helpful she did lie about her age and she also lied about her childrens ages and when her son my grandad died my mum and sisters thought he was one age and his sons my mums brothers had 2 ages of there own so my mum and sisters got there way and put the age on his death cert and grave and when i found his death record my uncle les was right and he died with the wrong age by 8 years lol my grandad albert light was also unsure when he was born as for all his life he had had 2 birthdays we joked he was like the queen lol he celebrated just before xmas and in the summer he was achually born 7th dec 1913 address is 136 crawley road horsham but on his birth record she has her info annie light mother marked with a cross and he signed his name - so the other way to there marriage record - and she calls herself annie light mother even though she is not married at this time and she is listed as annie light formerly douch in other collum . her death annie light was on the 2nd sept 1954 at 146 crawley road horsham aged 76 a widow of henry light market gardener it was in the presence of her daughter mary grey of 59 comptons lane horsham registered 3 sept 1954 she died of coronary thrombosis , myocardial degeneration and chronis bronchitis .
hope this helps abit on my grandads sisters birth record she is listed as surname daitch - charity light mums name daitch - on record she calls herself annie light formally daitch , i know the surname douch changes but we just cant find her birth record from the info off the childrens births and her marriage and death
any info would be great even if its a lead to check out as we really are stuck
many thanks lorraine

Dea-Thank heavens you have a good sense of humour! And a good pair of wellies....

Glad you're OK.

Moxx

Hi Maureen , - No - I am O.K.!

You can see the full details on 'Fred' !! ;-)

Dea Xxx

Hi Lorraine,

Firstly - Marriage records in UK never show place of birth yet you say that it says she was born in Eastbourne ???

Can you give the details I requested from the marriage cert please?

Dea x

Lorraine,

As Dea asked,could you please write out everything it says on her marriage certificate ? Witnesses and everything!!!!

She certainly doesn't seem to be the Alice Douch from 1881 as SHE was born Alice Flora Gore and goes on to marry James Wright in 1894. They're together in 1901 and 1911.

I hope Dea hasn't electrocuted herself! My goodness!

Maureen

on her marriage record she says she is born in eastbourne 1878 but on censes records its always sussex but 1878 to 1882 and she is listed as ann light - she never spoke of her parents according to all the family members who are old enough to remember her and we just cant find a birth record her death record was done by her daughter mary but she now has no memory of anything and is in a home and i have been told that they were not sure of her age when she died so they agreed between the family what to put down lol she is buried in roffey all saints church yard in horsham sussex . i would like to know more about my great gran and there must be more info out there somewhere but its so frustrating i have been going round in circles for 10 years now
i really am glad of any new idears or leads or poss births etc i just want to know who she really was
many thanks lorraine

Could you give us ALL the other details from that marriage cert please - ages, occupations, fathers, addresses and witnesses etc.

Thanks,

Dea x

P.S. - I may be a while as my husband has just flooded the bathroom and the water has come through the kitchen ceiling, blowing up the lights etc. :-D

Will be back asap.

Dea Xxx

hi all sorry had to go to a statement meeting today but back now
thank you for the help
my alice /annie douch married in 1916 horsham to henry light she lists her dad as john douch a bricklayer on her marriage record but could not find a birth record , a family member told me she lied about her age all her life and i could not find an annie douch to fit the info i had untill i looked at the 1871 census and then the 1881 census but then was confused as if alice was listed as alice schroder with parents thomas and mary a in 1871 why was she called alice douch with mum mary a douch and john douch in 1881 ??why was she living with them and calling them her parents in 1881 if thomas schoder and mary a are still alive ???? i could not find her as alice or annie douch in 1891 but in 1901 and 1911 she is living with henry light in horsham calling herself ann light even though they did not marry till 1916 - which has upset some of my nans sisters as they can see they were born out of wedlock lol so wanted to find out more info on her (alice / annie douch ) but i kept hitting brick walls or going round in circles. she is known by the older relations as alice but on her marriage its annie douch no middle name and some relations said she was called ann - depends on what part of her life you look at lol
many thanks lorraine

Yes indeed!

Maureenxxx

Yes - I have stopped now until Lorraine comes back.

It DOES seem to be another family completely though but I would rather start with that marriage cert and work backwards from fact.

Dea Xxx