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hi
in the 1871 census john douch is born 1848 camberwell he is aged 46 a bricklayer married to wife elizabeth douch aged 46
now on the same census under them is another family
i would to know the surname of this family
it looks like thomas sehlodu aged 27 a labourer married to wife mary a with children alice aged 4 and lydia aged 6
the reason i want to know the surname is i think my relation is the alice listed
john douchs wife elizabeth dies in 1897 camberwell dec 1d 573 camberwell aged 55 so on the next census record in 1881 john douch is listed as married to mary a douch
now this mary a is the mary a who was with them on the 1871 census and they have a mix of both familys children but now all children are listed as douch - my relation alice is now listed as alice douch ???
now when did john and mary a marry and when did marys previous husband thomas sehlodu?? die or what happened to him and there daughter lydia aged 6 in 1871 ?????
now my alice obviously thought of john as her dad as she listed him as her dad when she married in 1916 but this has caused me a great deal of confusion as i could not find her birth record and still cant hence i need to know the correct surname of her dad thomas sehlodu?????
if anyone can help answer some of these questions i would be very gratefull as i am going round in circles
my alice was called annie and ann later on
many thanks lorraine

1881

John DOUCH Head M Male 33 Newington, Surrey, England Bricklayer
Mary A. DOUCH Wife M Female 34 Newington, Surrey, England
Joseph DOUCH Son Male 12 Camberwell, Surrey, England
John DOUCH Son Male 11 Camberwell, Surrey, England
Elizabeth DOUCH Daur Female 8 Camberwell, Surrey, England
Alice DOUCH Daur Female 8 Camberwell, Surrey, England
Florence DOUCH Daur Female 1 Camberwell, Surrey, England


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Source Information:
Dwelling 29 Nutt St
Census Place Camberwell, Surrey, England
Family History Library Film 1341158
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0681 / 106
Page Number 66

John Douch
England and Wales Census, 1901
birth: 1848 Walworth,? London
census: 31 Mar 1901 Camberwell,? London,? Middlesex,? England


name: John Douch
event: Census
event date: 31 Mar 1901
gender: Male
age: 53
relationship to head of household: Head
birthplace: Walworth, London
record type: Household
registration district: Camberwell
sub-district: Peckham
ecclesiastical parish: Camden
civil parish: Camberwell
county: London, Middlesex

hi anncardiff
you have got the right census and as you can see in 1881 john douch is living with mary a as husband and wife but if you go back to 1871 john douch is married to elizabeth and mary a and her husband thomas are lodgers with them but i cannot find out what thomas surname is correctly and what happened to him when his wife and john moved on ???
its so frustrating lol
any help would be great
many thanks lorraine

????
Marriages Dec 1866
DOUCH Mary A Camberwell 1d 942
SCHRODER Thomas Camberwell 1d 942

Births Dec 1867
Schroder Alice Maria Newington 1d 20[41]


Maureen

No one seems to have been able to find the 1871 - could you please post the transcription exactly as it is given? A copy and paste would help.

Whlle not doubting that your research isn't correct, there are the following records


John James Douch
Age: Full Age
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Spouse Name: Mary Ann Russell
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 23 Aug 1868
Parish: Camberwell Emmanuel
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: John James Douch
Spouse Father Name: George Russell
Register Type: Parish Register

All males are bricklayers

Edit - although Maureen's post looks more likely!
2nd Edit - groom's address George St

This is the 1871 from FMP BUT, he is still married to a Mary A ???

DOUCH, John Lodger M 23 1848 Surrey VIEW
DOUCH, Mary A Wife F 21 1850 Surrey VIEW
DOUCH, Joseph Son M 2 1869 Surrey VIEW
DOUCH, John Son M 1 1870 Surrey VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
731 Folio:
38 Page:
12 Registration District:
Camberwell

Civil Parish:
Camberwell Municipal Borough:
Address:
Sumner Rd, Camberwell County:
London, Surrey


Dea x

hi
dont think the siladi family is the correct one as it listsmary ann as a daughter with family and she was married to thomas in 1871 so that would be his surname not hers ???? i cant find a marriage for thomas sehlodu and mary a ?????? or birth records for lydia aged 6 in 1871 so birth c1865 and alice 4 in 1871 so birth c1867 if you try and find the 1871 census with thomas and mary a in it it will not come up you have to look at the achuall census record for john douch and family then you will find thomas and mary a are loders with them but cant find any other records for them
its so frustrating , i am wondering if thomas and mary a moved into england from another country as there name is unusuall and they dont seem to be in any previous records etc but i need to find info on them as i need to find my great gran alices birth record and her parents info - alot of people have put john douch and mary a as the parents of all the children that they have in 1881 and its not true , would be great if any one can find info on thomas sehlodu??? and mary a and children alice and lydia
thanks for taking a look though and i appoligise if i give you a headache and it drives you as mad as it is me
:-S
many thanks lorraine

The Schroder's are the next household:

SCHRODER, Thomas Lodger M 27 1844 Middlesex VIEW
SCHRODER, Mary A Wife F 25 1846 Surrey VIEW
SCHRODER, Lydia Daughter F 6 1865 Surrey VIEW
SCHRODER, Alice Daughter F 4 1867 Surrey VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
731 Folio:
38 Page:
12 Registration District:
Camberwell

Civil Parish:
Camberwell Municipal Borough:
Address:
Sumner Rd, Camberwell County:
London, Surrey


Dea x

Mary Ann Donel
[Mary Ann Donch]
Spouse Name: Thomas Schroder - fireman
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Dec 1866
Parish: Camberwell St George
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: John Donel (Douch) - builder
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Schroder - deceased
Register Type: Parish Register

Address, George St

EDIT - on the 1868 marriage previously posted, the address given is also George Street. Could John and Mary Ann as above be brother and sister?

hi
i cant copy and paste as it wont let me
just open the achuall census of 1871 with john douch b1848 camberwell and you will see that thomas sehlodu aged 27 lab and wife mary a aged 25 and children alice 4 lydia 6 are living with them listed as lodgers
on the household record of 1871 with john douch they are not listed it was only when i opened the achuall record up i found them and then 10 years later john is living with mary a insted of his wife elizabeth from 1871 census and i have tried and failed to find thomas and his child lydia cant find death records or anything but did find the death record for john douch wife elizabeth in 1879 camberwell 1d 573 elizabeth douch aged 55
its so annoying as i think alice is my great gran although she lied about her age later on !
many thanks lorraine

Ahhh - I think I see the confusion... (or at least 'my' confusion !! :-D)

On the 1871 there is a John Douch c 1825 and his wife Elizabeth.

Same house but marked as lodgers are John Douch (c 48) and his wife Mary A + 2 children (details already posted)

Another set of Lodgers underneath are Thomas Schroder, his wife Mary A + children (Details posted above.)

It is the older John who was married to Elizabeth (presumably the parents of John and the other Mary A (now married to Thomas) ???

I think !!!!!!!!!!!
:-D :-D

Dea x

if john and mary are indeed brother and sister why would they list as husband and wife in the 1881 census ?????? or could that be a mistake on the census record and no wonder so many people are confused as i have several people who match my tree who think the childrens parents are john douch and mary ann when they are siblings lol oh deer ! but it would make sence if they were siblings in 1871 and she (mary a ) moved her husband and family in with her brother i know the surname douch made several spelling changes over the years
thank you so much for all this help i will try and find the marriage record for mary a to thomas and order that and see what we get
thank you again :-D

Looking at the 1871 image, there are 2 x John Douch.

The head is John age 46 married to ELIZABETH age 46

Lodger John age 23 married to MARY A age 21.
Their children
Joseph 2
John 1

The other lodgers being
Thomas Shroder
Mary A - wife
Lydia - daughter
Alice - daughter.

So it is probable that the Elizabeth Douch death in 1897 does not apply to this family unit

This is all of them on the 1871 from Ancestry:

1871 England Census
about John Donch Name: John Donch
Age: 46
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Donch
[Mary A Donch]
Gender: Male
Where born: Newington, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: Camden
Town: Peckham
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: Peckham
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Household schedule number: 64
Piece: 731
Folio: 38
Page Number: 12
Household Members: Name Age
John Donch 46
Elizabeth Donch 46

John Donch 23
Mary A Donch 21
Joseph Donch 2
John Donch 1

Thomas Schroder 27
Mary A Schroder 25
Lydia Schroder 6
Alice Schroder 4

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 731; Folio: 38; Page: 12; GSU roll: 823353.

Dea x

glanammanhousewifels - between us, we've found the marriage of Mary Ann Douch to Thomas Schroder...they are listed above but copied below

Marriages Dec 1866
DOUCH Mary A Camberwell 1d 942
SCHRODER Thomas Camberwell 1d 942

Mary Ann Donel
[Mary Ann Donch]
Spouse Name: Thomas Schroder - fireman
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Dec 1866
Parish: Camberwell St George
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: John Donel (Douch) - builder
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Schroder - deceased
Register Type: Parish Register

Address, George St

EDIT - on the 1868 marriage previously posted, (John to Mary Russell) the address given is also George Street.

Thomas + Mary Ann are still together on 1881:

1881 England Census
about Thomas Schoder Name: Thomas Schoder
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Lodger (Head) (Lodger)
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann Schoder
Gender: Male
Where born: Whitechapel, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Camberwell
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 80 Camden Grove N
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Bricklayers Laborer

Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 697
Folio: 101
Page Number: 39
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Jones 30
Eliza Jones 32
Arthur Jones 10
Eliza Jones 8
Ellen Jones 3
Wm. Mc Call 22

Thomas Schoder 38
Mary Ann Schoder 36
John Schroder 5
Thomas Schroder 1


Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 697; Folio: 101; Page: 39; GSU roll: 1341162.

Dea x

Possible ???

Deaths Mar 1885 (>99%)
SCHRODER Thomas 40 Camberwell 1d 591

Lydia's baptism (as a Douch) !! ???

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Rosina Lydia Douch Name: Rosina Lydia Douch
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1877
Baptism Date: 26 Jan 1877
Father's Name: John Douch
Mother's name: Mary Ann Douch
Parish or Poor Law Union: Walworth St John the Evangelist
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers


No date of birth given but she was probably born before this as 3 of them were done in a 'job lot'!!

Elizabeth Matilda
John William

done at the same time.

Father bricklayer
Address 33 Sunray ? Sumary? , Summary? Road.

Dea x

Who did your Alice marry??

Maureen