Find Ancestors

Thanks Ozi and Jax. The plot thickens! No, haven't got either death certificate. Are these freely available to do you have to buy them?

Thanks, Rupert

Have you got his death cert to see who was the informant?


Ozi

Maybe she did not marry?

Births Mar 1888 (>99%)
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CHARLES Ethel Carrie Camberwell 1d 9[8_]6

1891

Name: Ethel C Charles
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Arthur Charles
Mother's Name: Caroline A Charles
Gender: Female
Where born: Camberwell, London, England

Civil parish: Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St Annes
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: St James Bermondsey
Arthur Charles 36
Caroline A Charles 32
Sidney A Charles 6
Ethel C Charles 3


mother remarried

Marriages Sep 1896 (>99%)
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CHARLES Caroline Ann R Camberwell 1d 1658
Gray Edward Samuel Camberwell 1d 1658

1901

Name: Ethel C Gray
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Edward S Gray
Mother's Name: Caroline A Gray
Gender: Female
Where born: Peckham, London, England

Civil parish: Camberwell
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints North Peckham
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Camberwell
Sub-registration district: St George
Edward S Gray 43
Caroline A Gray 42
Sidney A Gray 16
Samuel J Gray 15
Ethel C Gray 13
Alice E Gray 2
Violet M Gray 1


It does not look like they had children either under O'brien/Charles or O'brien/Gray

If that is her death in 1969 she was 31 when she married just after ww1, so it is possable she was married before to a mr Gray.

Thanks Sylvia. What we're curious about is whether Reginald and Ethel had kids. He dies then in Wolverhampton in 1967 and i've found an Ethel C O'Brien also of Wolverhampton dying in 69 I think. Must be her. But can't find births/marriages etc for any kids. Any help gratefully received! Plus any photographs...

Rgds, Rupert

Rupert


sorry ..... I didn't realise you had that side of the family done!


I just can't get a handle on any more information for Reginald's parents.




sylvia

Thanks Syvia and Ozi.
Sylvia - I know all about Ruth's mother - she lived with my mother in old age! She was Jessie (O'Brien she always called herself) Killick. We've tradecd the Killicks in Horley, Surrey/Sussex back to 1389!
Just FYI, she always said she was in SA working at some point. Reginald's dates in SA tally with conception period for Ruth!

Good ones, Ozi!

????

1901 England Census
Name: Timothy Gleeson
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Emily Gleeson
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil parish: Kingston on Thames
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
Town: Kingston on Thames
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street Address: 28 Kings Rd

Occupation: Soldier Sergeant Major E.S. Regiment

Registration district: Kingston
Sub-registration district: Kingston
Piece: 665
Folio: 29
Page Number: 50
Household Members: Name Age
Timothy Gleeson 45
Emily Gleeson 40 - midwife; Chatham, Kent
William Gleeson 18 - Ireland
Ethel Gleeson 19 - Aldershot
Violette Gleeson 14 - E India, Rarickhet
Florence Gleeson 12 - Allababad, India
Margaret Gleeson 6
Lillian Gleeson 7
Timothy Gleeson 5
Victor Gleeson 3
Irene Gleeson 2

All other children born Kingston

?????
Marriages Dec 1903
McCARTHY Nellie Kingston 2a 835
O'Brien Mary Elizabeth Kingston 2a 835 <<<<<
WERTS Harry Paul Kingston 2a 835
White Thomas William Kingston 2a 835 <<<<<

This Reginald has mother Mrs. White, London, Ontario. Said he had been in Canada before from Feb. 1909 to Sept. 191 He planned to stay ppermanently in Canada. Nearest relative at home was cousin Mr. T. Gleeson, 130 King's Rd., Kingston, Surrey.

Canada, Ocean Arrivals (Form 30A), 1919-1924
about Reginald O'Brien Name: Reginald O'Brien
Gender: Male
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Birth Place: Devonport, England
Age: 33
Date of Arrival: 10 Oct 1920
Port of arrival: Quebec
Port of departure: Liverpool, England
Ship Name: Megantic

Rupert


May I suggest that you buy Ruth Killick's birth certificate .......... that will tell you the name of her mother, and we may be able to trace her back, and see whether she really was in South Africa at the same time as Reginald.


Order only from the following site ......... it will cost you £9.25, includng p&p (and that applies world-wide).

Some Records Offices wills till send out certificates ..... but they tend to charge usually £9.25 PLUS p&p

ALL other places charge more.


You have to register on this site, but it is free:-

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/



sylvia

Thanks again Sylvia. Well, the dates are interesting for South Africa, as I knew my gt grandmother was out there at some time. And 9 months on from that time, my grandmother was born, so they must have hooked up in SA!

Thanks again and goodnight! Rupert

Hi Rupert


I just have to go bed now ... it's almost midnight, and my eyes are closing!!


I'll try to have another look tomorrow, to see if I can find anything else ....... and possibly someone else may find other records .... maybe even in Canada. I'm the immigrant here, and I really don't know how to use the Canadian records.



You may want to check those dates of service, for times when he was in the UK, to see if any of them could be around the time that your grandmother could have been conceived.




sylvia

Much appreciated Sylvia. This was the one I wanted (we all wanted) to know about. There were vague notions of a romantic Irish Canadian war hero struck down on the fields of France and in fact he survived and married someone else and had 52 years in the UK side by side with the daughter he never knew. I feel really cheated for my grandmother, bless her. She was obssessed with reading up on WW1, possibly as a way of coming to terms with the 'loss' of a father she never knew.

Any more on Reg's parentage would be fascinating though. Thanks again all.

??????????????

London, England, Electoral Registers, 1835-1965 about Francis Basil O'Brien

Name: Francis Basil O'Brien
Electoral Year: 1937
County or Borough: Enfield
Parliamentary Division: Enfield



maybe NOT ....... there is a Francis B O'Brien born in Lancashire ca 1893

This might be Basil's birth registration:-

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Basil Francis O'brien

Name: Basil Francis O'brien
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1894
Registration district: Tendring
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 585






sylvia

Hi Rupert

yes .... that was all Reginald.


I didn't actually look for records for Basil

I think Basil might have been Basil Francis O'Brien ........... but I ahven't followed that up.




I've been trying to find momma!

I've been thinking it might be Anne Keefe/Keeffe/O'keefe ......... but I can't find a marriage to an O'Brien

nor vave I been able to find an Ann/e/ie O'Brien/OBrien on a census.




sylvia

This is all amazing everyone - thanks so much. Sylvia, when you say 'he' deserted and his service history - you mean Reginald, not his brother Basil, right?

Service
UK u30-8-1902 to 29-1-1912,
South Africa 30-01-1912 to 19-9-1914
UK 20-9-1914 to 4-10-1914
Expeditionary Force S Africa 5-8-1914 to 19-9-1914
UK 20-9-1914 to 4-10-1914
Expeditionary Force France 5-10-1914 to 6-1-1916
UK 7-1-1916 to 3-10-1916
Overseas 4-10-1916 to 26-9-1917
UK 28-9-1917 to 10-2-1919
Cl-2-A-R 11-2-1919 to 31-3-1920
Discharged 31-3-1920


He deserted at least once, in 1910, and had several other mis-deeds

Probably born on the "Orontes", poor soul.

Ozi