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Trying to sort out Elizabeth Bessmeres' origins

The only one that shows at first sight (other than the one Margee posted just above) is this one.


she might have been a widow! Only the marriage certificate will show that


1871 Wales Census

Name: Elizabeth Besemeres
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William Besemeres
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesex, London, England
Civil parish: Lower Vainor
County/Island: Cardiganshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Aberystwith
Sub-registration district: Aberystwith

William Besemeres 43 b.ca 1828, Middlesex, London, Retired Physician
Elizabeth Besemeres 49
Alice Owings 27 b. Paris, Visitor
Hannah Clevcesby 30 b. Surrey, London, Visitor
Alice Thomasina Middlemist b. Surrey, 17 Visitor
Mary Narates Middlemist 16 b. Surrey, Visitor
Rheda S Cummins 15 Servant
Morgan Morgan 15 Servant

Address:- Dole


William's age is actually 73, not 43.

I think Alice Owings is actually Alice Ewings


possible marriage ................

Marriages Sep 1849 (>99%)

Besemeres William Camberwell 4 41
Ewings Elizabeth Camberwell 4 41



from ancestry ...................

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Elizabeth Ewings

Name: Elizabeth Ewings
Spouse Name: William Besemeres
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 4 Aug 1849
Parish: Camberwell St George
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Abraham Ewings
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

William
Of Full Age
Bachelor
Occupation:- Surgeon
Address: Kent (???) Rd
Father and occupation:- (forename not given) Besemeres, Gentleman

Elizabeth
Address:- Coburg Road
Father occupation:- Gentleman

Witnesses:- Robert Ewings and (can't read ... possibly Bertha Cummins???)




sylvia

Possibly Elizabeth's birth if she went by her second name? (Often done when first name was same as mother's)

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Harriet Elizabeth Besemeres Name: Harriet Elizabeth Besemeres
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1826
Baptism Date: 28 May 1826
Father's Name: John Besemeres
Mother's name: Harriet Besemeres
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Botolph without Bishopsgate
Borough: City of London
Register Type: Parish Registers

Father is a linen seller.(Possible Dutch or Flemish connection?)

Edit: Nope, think I'm wrong, Harriet Elizabeth married Frederick Hawkins 1878:

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Harriet Elizabeth Besemeres Name: Harriet Elizabeth Besemeres
Spouse Name: Frederick Hawkins
Spouse Age: Full Age
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 13 Nov 1878
Parish: Holloway St James
Borough: Islington
Father Name: John Besemeres
Spouse Father Name: George Hawkins
Register Type: Parish Register

Thank you for all the information, all is useful

I know purchase of the certificates is the only way to be sure, but that's not cheap with so many ancestors to look up.

But I still cannot get to grips with the marriages of Richard Uriah Martyn.
His second wife appears to be Elizabeth Bessemeres - a Dutch or Flemish name, supported by the appearance in 1881 census of a niece Emily ERRENGE born in Belgium

Again, many thanks
John Thriscutt

Sophie and family in 1901


1901 Census

Name: Sophie M Hitchins
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Arthur S Hitchins
Gender: Female
Where born: St Austell, Cornwall, England

Civil parish: St Austell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Austell Holy Trinity
Town: St Austell
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England

Registration district: St Austell
Sub-registration district: St Austell

Arthur S Hitchins 32 b.ca 1869, St Austell, Corn Merchant
Sophie M Hitchins 28
Winifred S Hitchins 4 b.ca 1897, St Austell
Wesoma S Hitchins 1 b.ca 1901, St Austell, Son
Eliza K Osborne 21 Cook
Florence George 22 Housekeeper
Selena Phillips 22 Children's Nurse

Address:- Truro Road



"Wesoma" does look like that on the image, but it is Desmond!


England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 for Desmond Martyn Slade Hitchens

Name: Desmond Martyn Slade Hitchens
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 02 May 1900
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Mewan, Cornwall, , England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Arthur Slade Hitchens
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Sophie Mary Pearce Hitchens
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I02527-4
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1596056
Reference Number: 292


England Marriages, 1538–1973 for Desmond Martyn Slade Hitchins

Groom's Name: Desmond Martyn Slade Hitchins
Groom's Birth Date: 1900
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age: 20
Bride's Name: Doris Kidner
Bride's Birth Date: 1892
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age: 28
Marriage Date: 1920
Marriage Place: Whitwell, Hampshire, England
Groom's Father's Name: Arthur Slade Hitchins
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name: Mason Kidner
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M16678-1
System Origin: England-VR
Source Film Number: 1470893
Reference Number: 2:3C0HKKC


and Winifred's baptism

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 for Winifred Irene Slade Hitchins

Name: Winifred Irene Slade Hitchins
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 16 Oct 1896
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Austell, Cornwell, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Arthur Slade Hitchins
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Sophie Mary Peace
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I02350-0
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1545297
Reference Number: item 4 p 9




England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1861-1941 about Sophie Mary Pearce Hitchins

Name: Sophie Mary Pearce Hitchins
Probate Date: 4 Jul 1941
Death Date: 20 Feb 1941
Death Place: Cornwall, England
Registry: Bodmin

from image:-

Sophie Mary Pearce Hitchins, of Abergarwyd, Fowey, Cornwall, died 10 February 1941, at St Austell, Cornwall. Probate [granted] Bodmin 4 July 1941 to Desmond Martyn Slade Hitchins, Sales Manager, and Winifred Irene Slade Connell (wife of Arthur Gervath Connell)
Effects £977 14s 7d




sylvia

also from ancestry

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1861-1941 about Richard Elias Pearce Martyn

Name: Richard Elias Pearce Martyn
Probate Date: 8 Nov 1916
Death Date: 7 Apr 1916
Death Place: Cornwall, England
Registry: Bodmin

from image:-

Richard Elias Pearce Martyn, of Carthew House, St Austell, and of Cliff House, Newquay, both in Cornwall, esquire, died 7 April 1916, at Carthew House. Probate [granted] Bodmin 8 November 1916 to Alice Louisa Ewing Martyn, Widow.
Effects £18,335 10s


sylvia

from beta.familysearch ...... a free site

England Marriages, 1538–1973 for Sophie Mary Pearce Martyn

Groom's Name: Arthur Slade Hitchins
Groom's Birth Date: 1868
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age: 27
Bride's Name: Sophie Mary Pearce Martyn
Bride's Birth Date: 1870
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age: 25
Marriage Date: 16 Oct 1895
Marriage Place: St. Austell, Cornwell, England
Groom's Father's Name: Thomas Hitchins
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name: Richard Uriah Martyn
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I02350-0
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1545297
Reference Number: item 4 p 202



I think this is Kate's marriage ..... with mistranscribed Uriah! ...............


England Marriages, 1538–1973 for Kate Pearce Martyn

Groom's Name: Charles Thomas Ward
Groom's Birth Date: 1849
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age: 28
Bride's Name: Kate Pearce Martyn
Bride's Birth Date: 1858
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age: 19
Marriage Date: 01 May 1877
Marriage Place: St. Austell, Cornwall, England
Groom's Father's Name: G. Thompson Ward
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name: Richard Jonah Martyn
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status:
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I02349-9
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1545297
Reference Number: 71




sylvia

Elizabeth in 1891 ........ with Sophia M P Martyn livign with her


1891 Census

Name: Elizabeth Martyn
Age: 69
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: London, England

Civil parish: St Austell
Ecclesiastical parish: St Austell
Town: St Austell
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England

Registration district: St Austell
Sub-registration district: St Austell

Elizabeth Martyn 69 Widow, Living on own means
Sophia M P Martyn 21 b.ca 1870, St Austell, Living on own means
Elizabeth A Gilbert 40 Servant, Cook
Elfreda B Gilbert 27 Servant, Housemaid

Address:- Clynton



sylvia

also from ancestry


Mike found a possible death for Elizabeth Martyn, and posted it above

---------
Age slightly out but could be her

Deaths Mar 1894
Martyn Elizabeth - 74 - St. Austell 5c 95
-------------

and it does look as though it was "your" Elizabeth


England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1861-1941 about Elizabeth Martyn

Name: Elizabeth Martyn
Probate Date: 8 Mar 1894
Death Date: 5 Jan 1894
Death Place: Cornwall, England
Registry: Bodmin

from image:-

Elizabeth Martyn of Clynton, St Austell, Cornwall, Widow, died 5 January 1894. Probate [granted] Bodmin 8 March 1894, to Alice Ewings, spinster.
Effects £651 8s 4d

Again, you'd have to buy the will to find out how it was all distributed.




sylvia

Do you have this


from ancestry


England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1861-1941 about Richard Uriah Martyn

Name: Richard Uriah Martyn
Probate Date: 18 Apr 1887
Death Date: 29 Jan 1887
Death Place: Cornwall, England
Registry: Bodmin


from image:-

The Will of Richard Uriah Martyn, late of Clynton in the Parish of St Austell in the County of Cornwall, Gentleman, who died 29 January 1887 at Clynton was proved at Bodmin by Arthur Coode of Trevarthian in St Austell, Esquire, and Thomas Rogers Parnall of Ivy Cottage in St Austell, Gentleman, the Executors.
Personal Estate £21,384 9s 8d


so he was a very wealthy man


You would have to buy the will to find out how the money and effects were left, and to whom.



sylvia

John

just one point ...............


we can't confirm anything for you, or anybody else.


we might be able to find records for your guys, that may help clarify matters ............ the only way to confirm anything is for you to BUY certificates ..... birth, marriage or death.

We may be able to guide you to possible marriages, births, etc ............... but it is then up to you to buy the certificates.


We are all members just like yourself, possibly with more experience, a love of doing research, and with ideas of where to find information.



sylvia

1861 England Census
about Kate Martyn Name: Kate Martyn
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Richard Martyn
Mother's name: Annie Martyn
Gender: Female
Where born: St Austell, Cornwall, England

Civil parish: St Austell
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England
Registration district: St Austell
Sub-registration district: St Austell
ED, institution, or vessel: 19d
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 71
Piece: 1549
Folio: 30
Page Number: 15
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Martyn 36
Annie Martyn 32
Kate Martyn 3
Jane Woon 40 , servant
Catha Tremain 24 , servant

1871 England Census
about Sophia M Martyn Name: Sophia M Martyn
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Richard Martyn
Mother's name: Anna M Martyn
Gender: Female
Where born: St Austell, Cornwall, England
Civil parish: St Austell
Town: St Austell
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England
Registration district: St Austell
Sub-registration district: St Austell
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Household schedule number: 58
Piece: 2266
Folio: 10
Page Number: 11
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Martyn 47
Anna M Martyn 38
Richd E Martyn 6
Sophia M Martyn 1
Catherine S Pearce 71 , visitor
Winnie Clemes 20 , servant
Meti Rosercur 21 , servant

Births Sep 1864 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MARTYN Richard Elias Pearce - St Austell 5c 131




Possibly Richard EP in 1881 (mistranscribed as EF ?)


Richard E.F. MARTIN Scholar U Male 17 St Austell, Cornwall, England Military Student

:
Dwelling Private School Ham Lane Ham House
Census Place Charlton Kings, Gloucester, England
Family History Library Film 1341619

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Mar 1887
Martyn Richard Uriah - 64 - St. Austell 5c 97

Sophie not with parents in 1881


Sophie Mary Pearce MARTYN Scholar U Female 11 St Austell, Cornwall, England Scholar

Dwelling Ellenborough House
Census Place Cheltenham, Gloucester, England

Household: 1881 - for age reference

Richard U. MARTYN Head Male 55 St Austell, Cornwall, England Living On Land Rents
Elizabeth MARTYN Wife Female 57 London, London, Middlesex, England
Emily ERRENGE Niece U Female 24 Antwerp (For), Belgium Living on Monies Invested
Elizth. GILBERT Serv U Female 31 St Austell, Cornwall, England Domestic Servant
Elfrida GILBERT Serv U Female 20 St Austell, Cornwall, England Domestic Servt


Dwelling Clynton House
Census Place St Austell, Cornwall, England

------------------------------------------------

Age slightly out but could be her

Deaths Mar 1894
Martyn Elizabeth - 74 - St. Austell 5c 95

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1870
MARTYN Sophie Mary P - St. Austell 5c 133


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1895 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Barnicoat Sophia Ann St. Austell 5c 192
Harvey Richard St. Austell 5c 192
Hitchins Arthur Slade St. Austell 5c 192
********Martyn Sophie Mary P - St Austell 5c 192

Appears to have married twice:
First to Ann Matilda Pearce, 1857, St Austell, having children Kate 1858, Richard E P 1865, and Sophia M 1870.
Second to Elizabeth Bessmeres, 1878, Newton Abbott, no issue found

Can anyone confirm;
1. This is the same Richard Uriah Martyn?
2. What happened to Ann Matilda Martyn, nee Pearce?
3. What happened to Sophia M Martyn?
4. What happened to Elizabeth Martyn, nee Bessmeres

Many thanks