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Thank you Quoy.

Very intersting about OH's great aunts and uncles on the photo. Wrong Stanley. Not Stanley C born to mmn Steel 1915, the Stanley for our family is Stanley b 1913 no second name mmn Stuhler.

Mother in Law Edith daughter of Francis Driessche. She had no memory of her father, she was born 1920 he died 1922. Frederick Gardner was her father figure although she remained a Driessche. My husband remembers uncle Alf Annie's last husband, he out lived her as she died 1956 he died 1958. Clear memories for OH.

Guess Annie's address at her death as OH visited often. 32 Lochnagar St.

Annie was Annie Edith, daughter Edith Annie took a lot of imagination that. Good job she didn't have children with the 4 husbands she had through child bearing years isn't it, then it would be confusing.

Thanks for info

Pat

These appear to be the children, following through the census' from 1881-1911
*Louisa ? Sep 78 Lambeth
*Frederick (?Augustus Charles F) ? Dec 80 Lambeth. He is on the 1881 and 1901 age 4 months and 20 as Frederick and on the 1891 where a 10 year old Augustus shows
*Edwin (?Edwin Sydney) Jun 83 Poplar
*Alice Dec '84 Poplar
*Edith (Annie Edith) Jun 88 Poplar
*Beatrice Mar 90 Poplar
*Ethel Dec 91 Poplar
*Herbert William Sep 93 Poplar
*Percy Alfred Dec 96 Poplar

So 9 for definite. Lots of Nicholls Lambeth and Poplar to find a 10th

BAPTISMS from Ancestry that match the above names
*Augustus Charles Frederick NICHOLES 27 Feb 1883
parents Charles Henry (a Coachman) and Annie of 19 Wilson Street
St Michaels and All Angels, Bromley. Borough of Tower Hamlets
*Edwin Sidney NICHOLLS } both on 28 Feb 1883. Same parents, same address
*Louisa Victoria NICHOLLS} Same church, Different Vicar entered details, hence surname. Same occupation
*Alice CAN"T find a match
*Annie Edith NICHOLLS 30 May 1888 same parents, church, occupation
Address 26 ? Navin Street
*Beatrice NICHOLLS 16 May 1890 details as per Annie
*Ethel NICHOLLS 4 Nov 1891 details as Annie/Beatrice
*Herbert William NICHOLLS 30 August 1893 same address Occupation Carman
*Percy Alfred NICHOLLS 21 Oct 1896 b 3 Oct 1896 Address in a clearer hand looks like 26 NAISH Street. Occupation Coachman

Charles down as a Coachman/Carman for all baptisms
Address 26 Nairn Street 1891/1901 census
Occupation census 81 - Bus conductor. 91/01 Biscuit Traveller. 11 Carman

Just found a tree on Ancestry of Maria Stuhler with a photograph

children of her and Francis

Francis van den Driessche
1877 – 1922
Antonia Maria van den Driessche
1902 – 1998
Francis John van den Driessche
1903 – 1974
Caroline Julia van den Driessche
1907 – 1937
John Francis van den Driessche
1909 – 1996
Edward Henry van den Driessche
1911 – 1916
Grace Mary van den Driessche
1913 – 2004
Stanley Charles van den Driessche
1915 – 1997

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/30511674/person/12278227342?ssrc=

Just to get my brain round this

Marriages Jun 1907 (>99%)
NICHOLLS Edith Annie W. Ham 4a 481
SHARMAN Alfred Frederick W. Ham 4a 481

Marriage 1916
Annie Edith Sharman widow
Alfred William Goldsmith

Marriage
Event Date: 25 Jan 1920
Annie Edith Goldsmith widow
Francis Driessche

Marriages Dec 1924 (>99%)
Driessche Annie E Poplar 1c 748
GARDNER Fredrick Poplar 1c 748

Annie is again widowed and married in 1950s not long before her death.

In 1918 on the electoral rolls for London

40 Lochnagar street
Charles Henry Nicholls
Alfred William Goldsmith
Annie Edith Goldsmith
Annie Nicholls

at number 32 Lochnagar Street
Francis Driessche

When the 2 girls married the address was
7 Lochnagar street

Just posting 1881 census to look for an older child:

Name: Charles H. Nichols
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Annie Nichols
Gender: Male
Where born: Dalston, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Bromley St Leonard
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 125 Brunswick Rd (West Side)
Condition as to marriage: Married

Occupation: Bus Conductor (Coach N D)

Registration district: Poplar
Sub-registration district: Bromley
ED, institution, or vessel: 38

Piece: 502
Folio: 39
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles H. Nichols 29
Annie Nichols 27
Louisa Nichols 2
Frederick Nichols

Quoy, a second look is always worthwhile; and I hadn't given the details properly last night.

Meanwhile, as you say, Charles Horace Heath:

- it looks as if he is the Goldsmith family witness

Florence Emily Goldsmith born abt 1886
married 23 Apr 1916
to Charles Horace Heath
at Bromley St Michael and All Angels

Charles Horace Heath born abt 1891
married 23 Apr 1916
to Florence Emily Goldsmith
at Bromley St Michael and All Angels

Ethel and Annie wed 1 week apart from the same address and thier father was witness in both marriages


sorry just read back and saw you knew


John William Palmer
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Spouse Name: Ethel Nicholls
Spouse Age: 34
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 27 Aug 1916
Parish: Bromley St Michael and All Angels
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Alfred Palmer
Register Type: Parish Register

sorry Ivy reading back I see you have posted this marriage

Annie Edith Sharman widow
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Father Charles Nicholls labourer
Spouse Name: Alfred William Goldsmith
Spouse Age: 29
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 20 Aug 1916
Parish: Bromley St Michael and All Angels
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Spouse Father Name: Alfred James Goldsmith
Register Type: Parish Register

witness's Charles Henry Nicholls
Charles Horace Heath ?

Following this family back through the census
1881 - Charles is a bus Conductor
1891/1901 - Cake and Biscuit Traveller
1911 - Carman
So by 1920 aged 67/8 maybe a Dock Labourer it had to be.

Hope you get a good night, I expect all this will be whirling around for a while. Let us know if there is anything more we can help with and if you get onto the Pingel Holmes' then................................

Must go to bed, it's after 2am here and I have to go out tomorrow to have lunch with friends,

Thank you all so much. If you post anymore I'll check and get back tomorrow.

Thank you and goodnight, have a quiet and peaceful night.

Pat

It is all about the people and the friendships, isn't it? There was an excellent talk on Radio 4 by Lisa Jardine - see

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/programmes/schedules/fm/2011/12/02

(still available to listen)

All the best

They did all get on and when my husband's aunt Lily (Garnder) came back to UK in the late 70s from Oz, she came to see my father in law and my husband, my mother in law had already died. She stayed with Dolly and her brother.

My husband spent several summers with Lily at her home on the Isle of White with her daughters before they emigrated.

"...On her marriage Annie said father worked on docks as labourer not a carman. "

Yes, I wondered about that too; I suppose he may have had to change occupation by then, but on the other hand this might well be the wrong family.

- my main reason for assuming that it is the right family is the marriage of Ethel from the same address in 1916.

"...a lady he called a very ordinary gran. He's rethinking that impression now."

LOL

You do begin to wonder at the number of marriages, but for all that, they do sound to me like a family just getting by as best they can...

On her marriage Annie said father worked on docks as labourer not a carman.

That's good (EDIT re Stuart's 1911 posting); does it compare with 1891:

Name: Augustus Nicholls
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles H Nicholls
Mother's Name: Annie Nicholls
Gender: Male
Where born: Poplar, London, England

Civil parish: St Leonard
Ecclesiastical parish: St Michaels
Town: Bromley
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Poplar
Sub-registration district: Bromley
ED, institution, or vessel: 39

Piece: 326
Folio: 147
Page Number: 67
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles H Nicholls 59 (EDIT - 39 on the image)
Annie Nicholls 37
Louisa Nicholls 12
Augustus Nicholls 10
Edwin Nicholls 8
Alice Nicholls 6
Bradford Nicholls 1 (Beatrice on image)

Re the mmn wonder if she was asked for her previous name not maiden name. Edith knew her father was Driessche and kept that name. Aunt Dolly (Doris) knew she was half sister to Edith and the Gardner children. The Gardner children understood the situation so there was nothing hidden about her last 3 marriages. It's the first 2 that are the shock.

Thank you all for your help. It's going to take a while to sort out my tree when I get over the shock. I didn't know the lady, my husband spent 9 years with the lady, a lady he called a very ordinary gran. He's rethinking that impression now.

Pat

?? A few of them Ivy
1911 census transcription details for: 3 Bromley Hall Road Poplar
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN1692 RG78PN59 RD22 SD2 ED15 SN183

Reg. District: Poplar Sub District: Bromley
Parish: Poplar Borough Enum. District: 15
Address: 3 Bromley Hall Road Poplar
County: London

Name Relation Condition/Yrs married Sex Age BirthYear Occupation Where Born
NICHOLLS, Charles H Head Married30 years M 58 1853 Carman Dalston London
NICHOLLS, Annie Wife Married F 57 1854 Brompton London
NICHOLLS, Ethel Daughter Single F 19 1892 Kealy And Tonge Whitechapel Poplar London
NICHOLLS, Herbert W Son Single M 17 1894 General Labourer Poplar London
NICHOLLS, Percy A Son M 14 1897 Messenger Boy Poplar London

10 children born, 9 alive, 1 died

- and where is this family on the census?

Bromley St Michael and All Angels Tower Hamlets
Parents Charles Henry and Annie Nichol*s

Augustus Charles Frederick Nicholes 27 Feb 1883
Edwin Sidney Nicholls 28 Feb 1883
Louisa Victoria Nicholls 28 Feb 1883 (poss d 1897)
Annie Edith Nicholls 30 May 1888
Beatrice Nicholls 16 Feb 1890
Ethel Nicholls 4 Nov 1891
Herbert William Nicholls 30 Aug 1893
Percy Alfred Nicholls 21 Oct 1896

(Not sure about these 2 at Hampstead Holy Trinity Barnet:
Maggie Winifred Nicholls 6 Jul 1890
Chara Stephen Nicholls 3 Apr 1892)

Edit: there should be 10 children, 1 died, nine survived to 1911
There should be Alice in the 1880s; if it is correct that Louise Victoria died in 1897, there should be one more surviving child - perhaps an older child?

It looks as if Alice's baptism has been mistranscribed:
Alice Maud Micholls bapt 7 Dec 1884
at Bromley St Michael and All Angels
Parents Charles Henry Micholls and Annie Micholls
Borough Tower Hamlets