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Hi, I'm looking for some help with tracing the maiden name of my great great grandmother Rachel.

From census records I've deduced that she was born in 1876 - or 1875/1877 depending on when her birthday was, in Bury, Lancashire.

She married Edward Alfred Fenn, who was also born in c.1876, in around 1859 - again an approximate date gleaned from census records. I don't know where they married.

Edward was born in Norwich and his parents were Edward and Mary. All of Edward and Rachel's children were born in Norwich. I presume therefore that they married in Norwich but I have no concrete evidence of this.

My ancestry subscription has run out and I can't afford another so if someone could be so kind as to help me find the marriage cert and maiden name of Rachel, and then some details of her family in Lancashire, I would be incredibly grateful, thank you!

This appears to be the marriage?

Marriages Jun 1894 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Baker Ann Norwich 4b 148
Brooks James Norwich 4b 148
Fenn Edward Alfred Norwich 4b 148 ***
Hansell Rache Norwich 4b 148 ***

Dea x

1891 England Census
about Rachel Haneell
Name: Rachel Haneell
[Rachel Hansell]
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William Haneell
Mother's Name: Rachel Haneell
Gender: Female
Where born: Bury, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Heigham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Bartholomew
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England


Registration district: Norwich
Sub-registration district: West Wymer
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1531
Folio: 146
Page Number: 60
Household Members: Name Age
William Haneell 40 Fish Hawker b Norwich
Rachel Haneell 40 b Norwich
William Haneell 21 b Norwich
Charles Haneell 19 b Bury, Lancs
Alfred Haneell 17 b Bury, Lancs
Rachel Haneell 15 b Bury
Amelia Haneell 13 b Bury
Henry Haneell 6 b Norwich
John Haneell 3 b Norwich
Emmeline Haneell 10/12 b Norwich


Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1531; Folio 146; Page 60; GSU roll: 6096641.

Dea x

1881 England Census
about Rachel Hansell
Name: Rachel Hansell
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William H. Hansell
Mother's Name: Rachel Hansell
Gender: Female
Where born: Bury, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Norwich St James
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street Address: Pipeburners Row
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Norwich
Sub-registration district: East Wymer
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1940
Folio: 100
Page Number: 31
Household Members: Name Age
William H. Hansell 28
Rachel Hansell 28
William H. Hansell 10
Charles Hansell 9
Alfred Hansell 7
Rachel Hansell 5
Amelia Hansell 3
Sarah Ann Hansell

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 1940; Folio: 100; Page: 31; GSU roll: 1341467.

Dea x

Rachel Hansell - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 02 JAN 1876 St Paul'S, Bury, Lancashire, England
Father: William Hansell
Mother: Rachel

siblings:-

Charles Arthur Hansell - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 02 JAN 1876 St Paul'S, Bury, Lancashire, England

Albert Hansell - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 02 JAN 1876 St Paul'S, Bury, Lancashire, England

Amelia Hansell - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 29 NOV 1877 St Paul'S, Bury, Lancashire, England

Father:-

WILLIAM HENRY HANSELL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 19 DEC 1852 Saint Peter Southgate, Norwich, Norfolk, England
Gender: Male Birth: 27 NOV 1852 St Peter,Southgate, Norwich, Norfolk, England

Father: WILLIAM HANSELL
Mother: SOPHIA BANHAM

WILLIAM HANSELL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Marriage: 06 AUG 1849 Saint Peter Southgate, Norwich, Norfolk, England
Spouse: SOPHIA BANHAM


possible death:-
Name: William H Hansell
Birth Date: abt 1852
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1933
Age at Death: 81
Registration district: Norwich
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume: 4b
Page: 109

Just posting this version of 1881 census to show that the family originated in Norfolk and not Lancashire:-

1881
William H. Hansell Rachel abt 1853 Norwich, Norfolk, England Head Norwich St James, Norfolk
(Occupation: Paper Maker)
Rachel Hansell William H. abt 1853 Norwich, Norfolk, England Wife Norwich St James, Norfolk
William H. Hansell William H.,Rachel abt 1871 Norwich, Norfolk, England Son Norwich St James, Norfolk
Charles Hansell William H.,Rachel abt 1872 Fairfield, Lancashire, England Son Norwich St James, Norfolk
Alfred Hansell William H.,Rachel abt 1874 Bury, Lancashire, England Son Norwich St James, Norfolk
Rachel Hansell William H.,Rachel abt 1876 Bury, Lancashire, England Daughter Norwich St James, Norfolk
Amelia Hansell William H.,Rachel abt 1878 Bury, Lancashire, England Daughter Norwich St James, Norfolk
Sarah Ann Hansell William H.,Rachel Norwich, Norfolk, England Daughter Norwich St James, Norfolk

1871
1871 England Census about William Hansell
Name: William Hansell
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Rachel Hansell
Gender: Male
Where born: Norwich, Norfolk, England
Civil parish: St Paul
Ecclesiastical parish: Norwich
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England
Registration district: Norwich
Sub-registration district: East Wymer
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 255
Piece: 1809
Folio: 69
Page Number: 42
Household Members:
Name Age
William Hansell 19
Rachel Hansell 19 born: Norwich, Norfolk, England
William Hansell 8 Months
Charles Carey 49 -Lodger born Norwich, Norfolk, England
Frederick Carey 13


Name: William Hansell
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1870
Registration district: Norwich
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume Number: 4b
Page Number: 246
Spouse:- Rachel Carey

Thank you so much everyone, this information is wonderful! I really appreciate the time taken to dig all of this up - and to get maiden names too!

I was confused about the Lancashire birth as my granddad's side of the family should have all been Norfolk born...I wonder what they were doing up there?! A mystery!

Thanks again - I can't wait to see what else I can find now!

You will note that William was employed as a Paper Maker in Norfolk and also when he moved to Bury.

Bury at that time had a huge paper making industry and so I suppose that William moved up there for that reason.

Maybe the Mill where he had worked had closed and there would be a lot of opportunities for him to gain employment in Bury.

Looks possible though that he, or his wife, did not like it too much though as they returned to their 'home town' and he became a Fish Hawker.

Dea x

Sorry, had to leave for a while.

This looks to be William and Sophia in 1851:-

1851 England Census about William Hansell
Name: William Hansell
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sophia Hansell
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Norwich, Norfolk, England

Civil parish: Norwich St Julian
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street Address: Cockley Lane

Occupation: Coal Porter

Registration district: Norwich
Sub-registration district: Conisford
ED, institution, or vessel: 6a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 63
Piece: 1814
Folio: 238
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
William Hansell 19
Sophia Hansell 18 born: Norwich, Norfolk, England (occupation looks like:- Glover)
Sophia Hansell 7 MO

possible death for Sophia, but which one?

Name: Sophia Hansell
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1851
Registration district: Norwich
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume: 13
Page: 169

The death would seem to be that of his wife Sophia as it looks like William remarried in 1858:-

Marriages Jun 1858 (>99%)
Garner Alfred Norwich 4b 268
xxxx Hansell William * 4b 268
xxxx Siston Sarah Norwich 4b 268

..........then again there is this death also:-
Deaths Dec 1857 (>99%)
Hansell Sophia Norwich 4b 121

..........but either way the marriage would still fit.

The couple in 1861:-
Name: William Hensell
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Hensell
Gender: Male
Where born: Norwich

Civil parish: Norwich Lakenham
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street Address: Cherry Street

Occupation: Labourer

Registration district: Norwich
Sub-registration district: Mancroft
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 22
Piece: 1216
Folio: 64
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
William Hensell 29
Sarah Hensell 25
William Hensell 8


The couple in 1871:-
Name: William Hansell
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Hansell
Gender: Male
Where born: Norwich, Norfolk, England
Civil parish: Norwich
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
Town: Lakenham
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England
Registration district: Norwich
Sub-registration district: Mancroft
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 145
Piece: 1815
Folio: 62
Page Number: 24
Household Members:
Name Age
William Hansell 39
Sarah Hansell 36
William Liston 17 - Stepson born: abt 1854 Blofield, Norfolk, England

...........so looks like Sarah had a son when the couple married.

Births Dec 1853 (>99%)
SISTON William Blofield 4b 154

I think that both Sophia's died - this is the other one:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
about Sophia Hansell
Name: Sophia Hansell
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1857
Registration district: Norwich
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume: 4b
Page: 121

A tree on Ancestry suggests that the 1857 one is the mother and the 1851 the daughter.

Dea x

Dea, you are magnificent, thank you! That's really interesting about the paper making, and also really sad that William's mum and sister died so young...I'd never have been able to find all this out on my own, so I really am incredibly grateful. My granddad is going to be over the moon when I show him all this information about his ancestors!

Catherine, thank you so much for your help too - I am so grateful for all your research. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me - you are wonderful!

Glad to be able to help Rachel.
Anything else you need?
Regards
Catherine

You are very welcome Rachel - just let us know what else you need!

Dea Xxx

Well ladies, since you asked...you'll regret it now!!

Rachel's husband, Edward Fenn, b. 1876 - his parents were Edward Fenn b. 1859 and Mary Rout b. 1856, both in Norwich.

I'd love to be able to trace any siblings Edward (b.1876) may have had, as well as the parents and siblings of his parents Edward and Mary.

I've also hit a wall with my great grandmother Ellen Nelson - she married my great granddad Arthur Fenn (b.1906) in Norwich in 1927 but I can't trace her birth at all.

Thank you so so much for your help, I really do appreciate it!! x

Rachel there are two Ellen E Nelson's born Norfolk around 1906

Name: NELSON, Ellen Emily
Registration District: Help Norwich
County: Norfolk
Year of Registration: 1904
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Mother's Maiden Name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume No: Help 4B
Page No: Help 121



Name: NELSON, Ellen Elizabeth
Registration District: Help Norwich
County: Norfolk
Year of Registration: 1905
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's Maiden Name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume No: Help 4B
Page No: Help 155

1911

NELSON, Arthur Head Married M 29 1882 Invalid Norfolk VIEW
NELSON, Ellen Wife Married F 30 1881 City of London VIEW
NELSON, Samuel Son M 9 1902 School London Hackney VIEW
NELSON, May Daughter F 8 1903 School Norfolk Norwich VIEW
NELSON, Ellen Daughter F 6 1905 School Norfolk Norwich VIEW
NELSON, Arthur Son M 5 1906 School Norfolk Norwich VIEW
NELSON, Robert Son M 1 1910 Norfolk Norwich VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
11276 Reference:
RG14PN11276 RG78PN613 RD225 SD1 ED22 SN378

Registration District:
Norwich Sub District:
East Wymer Enumeration District:
22 Parish:
Norwich

Address:
50 Rackham Road County:
Norfolk

BRITCHER, Thomas Head Married M 63 1848 Bricklayers Labourer Norolk St Faiths VIEW
BRITCHER, Susannah Wife Married
38 years F 62 1849 Norfolk St Faiths VIEW
BRITCHER, William Son Single M 23 1888 Confectionery Worker Norflk Norwich VIEW
NELSON, Charles Son In Law Married M 30 1881 Bricklayer Norfolk Norwich VIEW
NELSON, Emily Daughter Married
10 years F 30 1881 Norfolk Norwich VIEW
NELSON, Beatrice Granddaughter F 10 1901 School Norfolk Norwich VIEW
NELSON, Florence Granddaughter F 8 1903 Norfolk Norwich VIEW
NELSON, Ellen Granddaughter F 6 1905 Norfolk Norwich VIEW
NELSON, Alice Granddaughter F 4 1907 Norfolk Norwich VIEW
NELSON, Hilda Granddaughter F 1 1910 Norfolk Norwich VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
11307 Reference:
RG14PN11307 RG78PN614 RD225 SD2 ED18 SN208

Registration District:
Norwich Sub District:
West Wymer Enumeration District:
18 Parish:
Norwich

Address:
16 Home St Norwich County:
Norfolk