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That's great, Kim. I love it when we get a result!

Just read the whole 5 pages of this story, its amazing how clever people are to unravel all these mysteries, well done everyone who helped, I know where to come looking when I need help.

take care
Sandra x

UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE

Finally the puzzle is solved!!!!!!

I heard from the person on Ancestry tree's and they knew nothing of Rosetta's shady going on's but we managed to confirm that Rosetta SMITH, WHITLEY, WHEATLY, BOSWELL & now WHITNEY is one person!!!

Rosetta born FULLER in 1881 married Albert Victor WITNEY in 1901 and had 5 children with 4 surviving. Albert and Rosetta parted for unknown reason's and the children were cared for by their father until his illness of tuberculosis forced him to put them in foster care. Albert filed for divorce in 1920 citing Rosetta and Jack BOSWELL's relationship as the reason. He then died in 1925.

Rosetta then married Jack BOSWELL in 1915 using the name SMITH as she was already married and had another 6 children.

Jack died in 1938
Rosetta died in 1960

It appears from the Ancestry tree contact they knew nothing of the other children just as my husband's family knew nothing of them. What a shame for all the children involved especially the youngest of the WHITNEY children who apparently held a grudge against her mother Rosetta for abandoning them until her death.

The end

Thank you so much for all your help and input in solving this mystery.

If you look at at Albert Victor - married 11 years 5 children four living...a bit of creative censusing going on!

Jude

I don't really know, Kim but I think there is a good chance it is.

On the 1911 she says she has been married 11 years (which is a couple of years out for the Fuller/Whitney marriage). She also says there were 5 children to the marriage but one has died and only one is still living!

If she had left Albert and it might explain why she married as "Smith". None of the trees on Ancestry have anything for her after 1911.

Let us know if you find out anything from the treeholders.

Just found that Rose Whitney was living at the same address as her parents in 1911:

1911 England Census
about Richard Fuller
Name: Richard Fuller
Age in 1911: 61
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Deptford Kent
Civil parish: St George in the East
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 34 Prusom Street, Old Gravel Lane, London East - image is 32
Marital Status: Married
Years married: 36
Occupation: CARMAN
Registration district: St George in the East
Registration District Number: 19
Sub-registration district: St George and St John
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Piece: 01527
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Fuller 61
Eliza Fuller 50
Ada Fuller 20
William Fuller 16

Just nudging to see if anyone else has any other views or answers to my UPDATE above

Looks like she lied - Albert seems to still be alive:

1911 England Census
about Joseph Whitney
Name: Joseph Whitney
Age in 1911: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1901
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Bermondsey London
Civil parish: Bermondsey
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 12 Fulford Street, Rotherhithe, S E
Occupation: SCHOOL
Registration district: St Olave (Bermondsey)
Registration District Number: 24
Sub-registration district: Rotherhithe
ED, institution, or vessel: 02
Piece: 01915
Household Members: Name Age
Albert Victor Whitney 28
Albert William Whitney 8
Joseph Whitney 10

I think this is the Rose who married Albert - she is shown as a widow. The trees on Ancestry have Albert as dying in 1925.

1911 England Census
about Ernest Whitney
Name: Ernest Whitney
Age in 1911: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1909
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Civil parish: St George in the East
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 32 Prusom Street, Prusom St, Old Gravel Lane, London East
Registration district: St George in the East
Registration District Number: 19
Sub-registration district: St George and St John
ED, institution, or vessel: 29
Piece: 01527
Household Members: Name Age
Rose Whitney 29
Ernest Whitney 2

UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE

Ok I finally have Mary Jane's birth certificate which reads from left to right:-

1st April 1922 24 Sceptre Street / Mary Jane / Girl / Jack BOSWELL / Rosetta BOSWELL late WHEATLEY formerly FULLER / Contractor's Carman / R BOSWELL Mother 24 Sceptre Street / 5th May 1922.

So there you have it!!

Firstly am I right in that 'late' means either widowed or divorced from and then the 'formerly' would mean maiden name??

Secondly I am guessing that the WHEATLEY on this cert is possibly the same as the WHITLEY on Lily's birth certificate and that FULLER was missed off of Lily's being's as all the other children had FULLER as mother's maiden name and given that mother's first name is Rosetta.

Thirdly still don't know where SMITH comes from unless Rosetta used that name as she was already married to Mr WHEATLEY/WHITLEY.

I cannot actually find a Rosetta, Rose or even Rosa FULLER marrying a Mr WHEATLEY/WHITLEY. All I can find is a marriage for a Rose FULLER to a Albert Victor WHITNEY in 1901, St Olave, Southwark but this marriage is linked to an Ancestry tree that shows they had 4 children.

I had found a baptism for a Rosetta FULLER born 30th August 1881 St George's In The East, Tower Hamlets. Father's name Richard (same as given on the Rosetta SMITH Marriage and this year also matches with the age given at time of marriage) BUT this is the Rose that married Albert WHITNEY!!

HELP before I go made lol.

Hi Kim

Don't know if you've seen this census from 1881 - age is a bit out but if you take Rossettas age at death it’s quite close - she may have lied about her age because she was older than her husband

3 Cottage Place, St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey, Borough of Southwark
Richard Smith 32
Frances Smith 34
Edward Smith 12
Benjamin Smith 5
Harry Smith 3
Rosetta Smith 1

Richard is described as a Mariner

Richard, Frances, and Edward are born in Greenwich, Benjamin in Surrey Borough and Harry and Rossetta in Southwark


regards

Ruth

Thanks Wisechild. I do have the marriage it is the inconsistency in surname that is causing the problem.

********************************************************************************

As for Jinny/Jenny which was found as Mary Jane Boswell born 1922 from death registration and although with a different mother's maiden name I have now found Jack Boswell's sister also called Mary Jane as:-

Birth Mary Jane
Marriage Jennie
Death Mary Jane
Census both Mary Jane and Jennie differs over years

This tells me that I am possibly looking at the right Mary Jane BOSWELL born 1922, will just have to wait for cert to arrive to see if it sheds any light on the different surname.

Just to offer my 2 pennyworth.
Boswell & Smith are both traveller (gypsy) surnames. This could possibly account for lack of marriage info as travellers often conducted their own marriage ceremonies rather than official ones.
The name Jinny can be a pet name for Jane (? Mary Jane)

Hi Potty

Yes I have Jack on the electoral registers from

1918 to 1921 at 45 Sceptre Street
1922 to 1934 at 24 Sceptre Street
1934 to 1938 at 61 Sceptre Street after this Rosetta is alone or with her daughter Lily and son in law Si(y)dney THOMPSON

Some of them he is listed as Jack and some John while Rosetta was listed as both Rosetta and Rose.

I have Rosetta's death in 1960 previously posted which fits with the electoral registers.

I cannot locate Jack after 1938 and the only death's that fits with date of birth as 1892 is:-
1941 Eastbourne, Sussex
there is one other death but the actual date of birth is not correct although I know this could still be a possibility
1969 Coventry, Warwickshire.

Kim, is Jack with Rosetta on any of the Electoral Rolls? If not, I wonder where he is? I can't see him there and yet he seems to have been at Lily's marriage.

I am beginning to think that Whitley is a bit of a red herring!

Let us know what Mary Jane's birth cert says.

Thanks Bob unfortunately he only served for 2 months and I have the details from Ancestry for that time which shows he has a wife named Rosetta BOSWELL and one son. No other clues.

If he joined the Army 1915---you can maybe obtain his service record online-- Medals awarded etc:

Thanks Gwyn I didn't see your post until after posted.

As above I have access to the records thanks.

It is all very strange isn't it!!

I have also searched and search. I cannot find a SMITH to WHITLEY marriage thinking she may of been married previously even though on marriage she stated herself as spinster.

I have her death in 1960 which gives year of birth as 1882, marriage gives it as 1889. On her marriage it gives father's name as Richard SMITH a carman but I cannot find her on any census with Richard as father.

I have seen the Electorial Registers and they confirm that this Rosetta is the same person:-
1918 - 1921 living at 45 Sceptre Street as per marriage and daughter's birth
1922 - 1933 living at 24 Sceptre Street
1945 - 1947 living at 115 Globe Road with daughter Lily and her husband Sidney THOMPSON
1949 - 1958 living at 46 Aston Street again with daughter Lily & son in law Sidney and the home that my husband's family still own today.

It all fits from that point of view but where does the WHITLEY and FULLER names fit in.

I am going to order the birth of the only Mary J Boswell with mother's maiden name FULLER and see what that offers.

On the Electoral roll images for 1945 there is a Rosetta BOSWELL living at 115 Globe Road.
Also at that address are William CELISSE, Gertrude CELISSE and Lilian J.THOMPSON.


Happy to look for other years if you need them.

Gwyn

Hi Kim,

Have read and re-read this thread and searched and searched!

The only thing I can find is a Rosetta Boswell in the London Electoral Rolls living in Tower Hamlets from 1918 to 1958. I can't view the records with my sub.

The only thing I can think of would be to get the Mary J Boswell/Butcher marriage cert. That might at least confirm whether she is Lily's sister. If it does, then her birth cert might help.

Could Rosetta have been married before and lied about her surname when she married Jack? The fact that there was a Rosetta Boswell born before that marriage is a little odd.