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found two marriages for william knowles
Nancy Sale married september 1855
Nancy Nutter married December 1857
So I think that on the 1881 William was not lodging with his sister Nancy nee marsh .
I think I will concentrate on the marriage to Elizabeth Smethurst , see what I can find out
marlene

On the web site familysearch.org I found Joseph Knowles 1870 father William mother Nancy Knowles .I found that usually they put the mothers's maiden name also but this time it was knowles .I have searched for a marriage of William Knowles and Nancy Knowles from 1855 to 1865 but nothing that has exactly the same date .The only close one I found was nancy Knowles Ashton 1861 8d 796 and William knowles Ashton 8d 795 .
Brick wall again !!
marlene

the 1881 census shows a William Marsh staying with Nancy & William Knowles but it just says he is a boarder and he is married

I can't find a marriage between Knowles & Marsh

the children birth regs on lancs bmd do not show the mother's maiden name unfortunately. Where did you find the ones with mmn = Knowles?

Have been checking up on William marsh again .I have been told that on the 1881 census William is staying with his sister Nancy and her husband William Knowles .I have tried to find out if Nancy Knowles was Nancy marsh before she married .Have tried looking at the births of their children but it says mother Mary Knowles .Went onto family search and there is a Nancy Knowles born 1835 in Atherton .If this is correct then on the 1881 census it is not williams Sister he is staying with .
Can anyone shed any light on this .
regards
marlene

On the 1881 that is my John marsh and family.
The correct Sarah Marsh is born 1885 and died 9th May 1977 , she was married to a James Teare .
On the marriage certificate of John and Catherine , John's father was a Nail maker .
Regards
marlene

what was John's (1857) father's occupations on his marriage to Catherine please?

Sarah from above - (same parents Catherine born Ireland)

Baptisms: 20 Oct 1880 Sacred Heart, Hindsford, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Sarah Marsh - Daughter of Joannis Marsh & Catharinae (formerly Cummins)
Born: 29 Sep 1880
Baptised by: Richardo J. O'Neill Miss. Apost.
Register: Baptisms 1865 - 1882, Page 185, Entry 71
Source: Microfilm of register at Wigan History Shop

Baptisms: 11 Mar 1885 Sacred Heart, Hindsford, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Sarah Marsh - Daughter of Joannis Marsh & Catharinae (formerly Cummins)
Born: 7 Feb 1885
Baptised by: Richardo J. O'Neill Miss. Apost.
Register: Baptisms 1882 - 1900, Page 52, Entry 13
Source: Microfilm of register at Wigan History Shop

and sister Mary

Baptisms: 5 Jul 1882 Sacred Heart, Hindsford, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Maria Marsh - Daughter of Joannis Marsh & Catharinae (formerly Cummins)
Born: 21 Jun 1882
Baptised by: Richardo J. O'Neill Miss. Apost.
Register: Baptisms 1882 - 1900, Page 7, Entry 34
Source: Microfilm of register at Wigan History Shop

thanks Marlene

for info is this your John in 1881?

John MARSH Head M Male 24 Chowbent, Lancashire, England Coal Miner
Katrine MARSH Wife M Female 25 Ireland
John MARSH Son U Male 3 Chowbent, Lancashire, England
Sarah MARSH Daur Female 7 m Chowbent, Lancashire, England

Source Information:
Dwelling 3 Bag Lane
Census Place Atherton, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341911
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3809 / 12
Page Number 17

My John marsh was born 1878 Hindsford Atherton ,His parents were John marsh and Catherine Cummins .
Have marriage certificate of John and Catherine and birth certificate of catherine .Also have marriage certificate of John marsh [born 1878] and Eunice Hampson .Have birth and death certificate of Eunice [my gran] given to me by my mother .On the 1911 census my mother Edna marsh is with her mother Eunice and gran Catherine .
Have also found that my William marsh born 1826 did not marry Mary Scholes as on there wedding cert it says that William's father James was deceased .James Marsh did not die till 1883 .
Quite a lot of this info was given to me by my mother's cousin jack marsh .
Jack's parents were James marsh born 1876 [my grandfather's brother]
married to Sarah Cunliffe.
it. was quite a while ago but also spoke to Jack and his brother Walter
who confirmed
Hope that is okay
Regards
Marlene

what certificates do you have Marlene which prove you have the right people in your list please

is this your John from 1878

Baptisms: 7 Jul 1878 Sacred Heart, Hindsford, Atherton, Lancashire, England
Joannes Marsh - Son of Joannis Marsh & Catharinae (formerly Cummins)
Born: 24 Jun 1878
Baptised by: Richardo J. O'Neill Miss. Apost.
Register: Baptisms 1865 - 1882, Page 146, Entry 57
Source: Microfilm of register at Wigan History Shop

I looked up james Marsh 7 in 1861 .On the 1861 he is with Mary marsh born 1818 and she is a widow.she also has a daughter Beatrice who is 17 .Do you think this is a different James as on the lanc bmd ther are a couple of James Marsh born 1854 mother mary Marsh and he is illegitimate .I may be barking up the wrong tree altogether .
Marlene

Hi Potty
My John marsh was married to sarah .John was born 1823 in Atherton.
Regards
Marlene

Hi flick
Will start with my mother
Edna marsh born 1906
John Marsh born 1878 her father , my grandfather
John Marsh born 1857 My G/Grandfather .
John Marsh born 1823 My G/G/Grandfather
William Marsh born 1826 a brother of John marsh born 1823.

I am still unsure of who is William's wife ,will do some more checking
regards
marlene

There seem to be two John Marsh born c1823 in Atherton:


1851 England Census
: John Marsh
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Harriet Marsh
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Atherton, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Atherton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Leigh
Sub-registration district: West Leigh
ED, institution, or vessel: 1c
Household schedule number: 39
Piece: 2205
Folio: 308
Page Number: 11
Household Members: Name Age
John Marsh 29
Harriet Marsh 30
Betsy Marsh 3
John Marsh 2

Name: John Marsh
Spouse: Harriet Marsh
Birth: abt 1822 - Atherton, Lancashire, England
Residence: 1851 - Atherton, Lancashire, England

1851 England Census
PreviewName: John Marsh
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Marsh
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Atherton, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Atherton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Leigh
Sub-registration district: West Leigh
ED, institution, or vessel: 1d
Household schedule number: 52
Piece: 2205
Folio: 348
Page Number: 11
Household Members: Name Age
John Marsh 26
Sarah Marsh 26
James Marsh 6
Sarah Marsh 1
James Kery 56

Which one is yours?

Any thoughts on the info about the Marsh/Scholes children? None of whom was called MARTHA................

Have you proved the relationship between John & William?

If you look at the info posted, you will see that the William who married Scholes does not give Atherton as his birthplace

HI Flick,
William marsh is the brother of my G/G/Grandad John marsh born 1823 in Atherton lancs.

The Martha Jane b1874 had a mmn of Higham:

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1874
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
MARSH Martha Jane Pemberton Wigan & Leigh HIGHAM PEM/33/328

and this is possibly her parents' marriage:

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1864
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
MARSH William HIGHAM Isabella St. John,Pemberton Wigan & Leigh

There is a totally different William Marsh on the 1851 census with an 11 month old daughter named Elizabeth, and wife Mary

1871 census for the Marsh/Scholes family

Name: William Marsh
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Marsh
Gender: Male
Where born: Heath Charnock, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Haigh
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Aspull
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 59
Piece: 3883
Folio: 113
Page Number: 13
Household Members: Name Age
William Marsh 45 Occ: Ag Lab
Mary Marsh 39
James Marsh 17
Margaret Marsh 16
Jane Marsh 15
George Marsh 12
Alice Marsh 8
Elizabeth Marsh 3

Marlene.............

Can I ask you to tell us how you worked back to this man?

Which of his children is your proven direct line?

The only way to research properly is to start from the present, and work backwards...........trying to do it in the opposite direction is almost always doomed to failure