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Hello all again
I've been looking into my granddads military record whilst their free on ancestry at the moment but as usual I can't find one for him I've got this
from his death record

Joseph Turner Manchester
Died 4/10/1917 France & Flanders
Lancashire Fusilers
(th battalion
service No 36348
Formerly 11403 Border Reg

on their enlisting records it tell you about their personal details

I've found other family members and their details but cann't find my grandad If anyone can help or tell me what I'm doing wrong it would be appreciated

Thank you










Hi just going over my tree and certificate etc
checking my granparents marriage certificate my granddad was Joseph Turner aged 20 a labourer in the Iron works his father was Thomas Turner a Farm Labourer deceased
they married in 1907 Manchester, I found my grandparents living in Manchester in 1911 and living with them was John W Turner brother.
I've a nasty feeling I've been following the wrong family as the family I've been following Thomas was a chimney sweep ???
I've checked BMD and Lancashire BMDs for Joseph and John W the trouble is the years I'm looking at 1888 & 1892 their are 2 for each in Manchester that look possibles
Is their any way of finding out their fathers name without getting the certificates

Hi,

how old was John W in 1911 and where were the Turner boys born??


?????????????

1891 England Census
about Joseph Turner Name: Joseph Turner
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Turner
Mother's Name: Ann Turner
Gender: Male
Where born: Westhoughton, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Hindley
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
Town: Hindley
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Wigan
Sub-registration district: Hindley
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3058
Folio: 62
Page Number: 21
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Turner 48
Ann Turner 38
John W Turner 21
Sarah A Turner 19
James Turner 17
Robert Turner 15
Thomas Turner 10
Peter Turner 11
Mary E Turner 9
Joseph Turner 5
Abraham Turner 3
Mogres Turner 1


Dee x

Just reread your post. so John W born 1892 in Manchester.

Who were the witnesses on Joseph's marriage certificate?

for info

1911 census - household transcription
Person: TURNER, John W
Address: 23 Whitfiled St Chorlton - on - Medlock Manchester



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TURNER, Joseph Head Married M 23 1888 Hawker Of Pots Lancashire Manchester VIEW
TURNER, Catherine Wife Married
3 years F 23 1888 Lancashire Manchester VIEW
TURNER, Annie Daughter F 2 1909 Lancashire Manchester VIEW
TURNER, Martha Daughter F 0 (5 MONTHS) 1911 Lancashire Manchester VIEW
TURNER, John W Brother Single M 19 1892 General Labour At Warehouse At Bleach Works Lancashire Manchester VIEW
NURTNEY, Martha Boarder Single F 19 1892 Test Cutter Lancashire Manchester VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The witnesses were James Cannon & Caroline Charlesworth

on the wedding certificate it has my gran was 20 but this doesn't add up as she was born in 1884
Joseph was killed in WW1 1917 aged 29 so his age does fit with the marriage certificate

Sylann,

should have also asked what address Joseph gave on the cert?

They were both at 9 Lw Chatham Street Chorlton on Medlock

Yes that is the 1911 census I have

Have you got Josephs birth cert? would give mothers name that would give you the right family to follow.

Flo

No

The next step is to get all 4 ??? to prove which is the right one this is what I didn't want to do the cost of each certificate

Sylann,

Are you sure its the right marriage for your grandparents? then if so you would only have to send for birth of Joseph to find mothers name and see if father ( Thomas ) matches. Then you can follow right family on census.

Flo

Yes it is the right certificate I'm just in the process of sending for his birth certificate just thought by getting John's aswell I'd definatly have the right family

Thank you for you help

Just looking at this Sylann;

1901 England Census
about John Turner Name: John Turner
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William Cannon
Mother's Name: Mary E Cannon
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester

Civil parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
Town: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Central
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 217
Piece: 3747
Folio: 145
Page Number: 34
Household Members: Name Age
William Cannon 38
Mary E Cannon 40
John Turner 10
Robert Cavner 5 >> Cannon on image
Emma Southern 57


Possible marriage;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Dec 1900 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>>>>Cannon William Manchester 8d 285
Hulston Mary Elizabeth Manchester 8d 285
Tanker Christopher Manchester 8d 285
>>>>>>>>>Turner Mary Ellen Manchester 8d 285

Sylann,

Is it possible you can ring the reg office? some are very helpful !
They would let you know if the info you give them over the phone is a match. saves you money !! they will not tell you what names are on but if you give all the names you expect to be on they will say if its a match.

Only on marriage you say Joseph is aged 20 that means he was born 1887or maybe 1886 meaning he may have been 21 later on in the year.
same applies for the death cert he may have been 30 that year , so that means he was born 1887 manchester.

Flo

1891 England Census
about Mary Ellen Turner Name: Mary Ellen Turner
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Thomas Turner
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester

Civil parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
Town: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Central
ED, institution, or vessel: 24
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3239
Folio: 76
Page Number: 22
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Turner 34
Mary Ellen Turner 34
Thomas Turner 12
William Turner 10
Sarah Turner 7
Harriet Turner 4
Joseph Turner 3
Elizabeth A Turner 1


So this is Thomas the Chimney Sweep........... have you found them in 1901???

I think you may be on to something BatMansDaughter:

Marriages:

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1900
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
CANNON * William CROSBY Mary E Manchester, Ancoats, St. Andrew Manchester 16/8/173
CANNON * William TURNER Mary E Manchester, Ancoats, St. Andrew Manchester 16/8/173


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1878
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
CROSBY Mary E TURNER Thomas Manchester, Ancoats, St. Andrew Manchester 16/3/291

Dea x

I thought Thomas was meant to be a Farm Labourer??

I suppose if Thomas died Joseph may have not really knew him and made his occupation up??

Thanks for the info Dea, starting to look more like a good possible now and with james cannon a witness on the marriage cert.... uummmm!!!

I am not sure that the occupation is a definate problem - they are not actually 'skilled professions' and surely a farm labourer may have decided to buy himself a set of brushes and go and clean a few chimneys for a while?? - Beats 'mucking out' sheds and castrating cows ???

Dea x

Very true Dea

There were probably a lot of mucky chimneys to sweep around that time :-D

jax

I would have thought it was the other way around ?

Chimney sweep first then became a farm lab! perhaps the dust got to his chest caused an illness and maybe his later years spent in the fresh air ?

thats what i am thinking anyway !! sorry for butting in!!
Dea./ Jax

Flo