Find Ancestors

Hi

My grandmother is Edith Maud Butler (nee Jones). She was born on 14/06/1921.

She married my grandfather Daniel William Francis Butler in Oct/Nov/Dec in 1940, in the district of West Ham.

She said her mothers name was Helen, although she is a bit unclear as to the surname, as (in her words) "She was a bit of a girl".

Her brothers were: Peter Jones, Charley Jones and sisters Ellen Francis, Margaret and Nelly.

This is why I am finding it so hard to trace further back.

Paul

I am lost

which of these is your grandmother ? ( you did not say where born )

Births Jun 1921
Jones Edith M Williams Bridgend 11a 2008
Jones Edith M Cooper Doncaster 9c 1816
Jones Edith M Jones Bridgend 11a 2049
Jones Edith M Williams Pontypridd 11a 1165
Jones Edith M Nash Pontypool 11a 410
Births Sep 1921
Jones Edith M Evans Newcastle T. 10b 163
Jones Edith M Alexander W.Bromwich 6b 1773
Jones Edith M Williams W.Derby 8b 693
Jones Edith M Toone Belper 7b 1284

Name: Edith M Jury
Mother's Maiden Surname: Jury
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1922
Registration district: Okehampton
Inferred County: Devon/Cornwall/Seilly
Volume Number: 5b
Page Number: 567

???


if that is her birth then you need to start with her birth certificate to get her mother's name, there is not much point in guesswork

probably her father's name will not be on the certificate

I have not had much luck finding births for the siblings

Peter

Do you have her birth certificate?


That will tell you her mother's name


As far as freebmd is concerned I can see only one Edith M Jones born and registered in West Ham ......... and that was in the June quarter 1822


Births Jun 1922 (>99%)

Jones Edith M Bowers W.Ham 4a 415


possible siblings


Births Mar 1911 (>99%)

Jones Ellen F W. Ham 4a 93


Births Jun 1915 (>99%)

Jones Edward K Bowers W.Ham 4a 401


Births Dec 1917 (>99%)

Jones Arthur Bowers W. Ham 4a 304 99%)

Jones Henry A Bowers W. Ham 4a 395


Births Jun 1922 (>99%)

Jones Edith M Bowers W.Ham 4a 415


Births Mar 1925 (>99%)

Jones Frances E Bowers W.Ham 4a 371


I think you have to start buying some certificates!



but also make sure that what you ask us to find for you has a solid basis in fact, rather than speculation!


chrissie and I spent a lot of time last night trying to sort out Ellen Jury, without the important information that you posted today!





sylvia

it looks like we had deduced, probably Constance Jury is the person and she did not marry anyone at all

I think Edith M Jury mother Jury is the likely candidate ... although that collection of Jones Bowers births does look interesting ...

confirmation of the mother's name from the birth certificate is essential

also Paul if you have the marriage certificate to Butler then why not tell us whether it names her father, if you don't have it you need to get that too

if she married as Jones she probably named her father

so those two certificates are the essential starting points

I don't see a death for Edith, do you have that information ?

at this point I don't even know where the name Constance Jury came from ...

this is the best match for a possible Jones Bowers marriage

Marriages Mar 1909
BOWERS Frederick W. Ham 4a 312
JONES Bessie West Ham 4a 312

but that is the wrong way round, chrissie!



the registration I found was for a Jones mmn Bowers.


The only one I found that way round was in 1890 ..........much too early for children being born 1911 to 1925


but those are the children that seem to have the names Paul mentioned as siblings




sylvia

actually, I've just noticed that GR has done one of its weird postings in that list of registrations


The post currently reads

Births Dec 1917 (>99%)

Jones Arthur Bowers W. Ham 4a 304 99%)

Jones Henry A Bowers W. Ham 4a 395


Births Jun 1922 (>99%)

Jones Edith M Bowers W.Ham 4a 415



It should read:-

Births Dec 1917 (>99%)

Jones Arthur Bowers W. Ham 4a 304
Jones Margaret Bowers W.Ham 4a 301


Births Dec 1920 (>99%)

Jones Henry A Bowers W. Ham 4a 395


Births Jun 1922 (>99%)

Jones Edith M Bowers W.Ham 4a 415



In that previous paost I had marked this birth with a query,

Births Dec 1917 (>99%)

Jones Arthur Bowers W. Ham 4a 304


wondering if he was somehow connected.


and I KNOW that one should not do that!





sylvia

oops, the brain boggled there, Mr Bowers and Ms Jones indeed :-)

so there is no marriage to account for Jones Bowers births

possibly Ms Bowers had been married before and married Jones under her first married name

if only she had married a Mr Wolfowitz the second time and not a Jones !

we can only hope that Paul has or will get his grandmother Edith's marriage certificate to get at least her father's name

that is the first link in the chain that we all have to start with if the details of parents are not known ( known in the sense of personal living memory or documentation, not rumoured memory or surmise ) ... the known person's first known registered event, often their marriage, for the father's name

and hope it is true !

I'm just going to make that list readable without scrolling through two monitors' worth of space :-)

Births Jun 1922
Jones Edith M Bowers W.Ham 4a 415

possible siblings

Births Mar 1911
Jones Ellen F W. Ham 4a 93

Births Jun 1915
Jones Edward K Bowers W.Ham 4a 401

Births Dec 1917
Jones Arthur Bowers W. Ham 4a 304
Jones Henry A Bowers W. Ham 4a 395

Births Mar 1925
Jones Frances E Bowers W.Ham 4a 371


the Ellen Jones in that list was born before the 1911 census

JONES ELLEN 1911 3 MONTHS West Ham Essex

there are far too many people with the name Ellen Jones living in West Ham in 1911 for me to sort out who is living with that one ... could someone with access post the household ?


I still wonder about Edith M Jury/Jury born in Devon ... which is where Constance H Jury died ... but there are no other births in Devon with mother Jury to match the siblings' names stated ...

Here it is Chrissiex.

1911

JONES, Harry Head Married
1 years M 32 1879 General Labourer Bermondsey VIEW
JONES, Mary F 27 1884 Surey VIEW
JONES, Ellen Daughter F 0 (3 MONTHS) 1911 Plaistow Essex VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
9433 Reference:
RG14PN9433 RG78PN507A RD188 SD3 ED23 SN148

Registration District:
West Ham Sub District:
Plaistow Enumeration District:
23 Parish:
West Ham

Address:
61 Dongola Road Plaistow E County:
Essex

thanks alviegal !

looks like

Marriages Sep 1909
? BAKER Mary Ann W. Ham 4a 233
GUEST Hetty May W.Ham 4a 233
? JONES Harry W. Ham 4a 233
RUSTON George William W. Ham 4a 233

... so probably rule out that Ellen F Jones born 1911

Between the names you & A have on this site i can't find 1 of their births registered for the dates that you have them down as

So i am wonder where have yous their birth dates from

that was confusing Julie ........ you did a tree search ?

I see now that Paul has

Edith Jones 1921 Custom House, Newham...

but finding the others would be torture ... can you tell us the names and dates ?

seeing as Paul isn't going to tell us anything it seems and some of us are feeling rather dogged about this :-)

What was confusing..............Paul has the names on a post on here..& yes i did a tree search but i can't remember the dates though.

The other person that has a tree on here also has one on Ancestry....but have fun looking at that one as theres over 28 thousand names

I was going to say thank you again, however, it would appear that because I have been at work since midday today and have only just got back in from work, I have been ignoring you all!

If I can get hold of more information, I will look at it myself over the coming weeks so as not to bother wasting anyones time.

I really thought this was supposed to be helpful and friendly and as a novice, it seems I fell for that.

I will say thank you for what you have found out, even though I did not give as much information at first, thank you for your time looking and rest assured, you wont be wasting any more time.

Sorry

Paul

I know the perfect answer to that one.


what e ver

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1327789