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On their marriage certificates does it say father was alive?

Maryb.

KMF, not sure what you mean - Percy is transcribed on the 1901 as you can see above. Name mis-transcibed as Perry! The image is the previous page.
Jan

Sorry Jan my mistake. Mary it says on both that father is dead. No idea where the name Gordon comes from!

That's OK!
I wonder if it's worth having a look for this Charles Gordon? The only chance might be via his occupation 1911/1881.
Jan

To be honest Jan Im begining to wondor if Charles/William Gordon actually exists, but what i have seen is, in 1891 census Lizzie Newsam in house with a family and Herbert C FIsher,his occupation is solicitors clerk, Im thinking that this is John Charles's father.
. Still cant find lizzie in any births I think that the kids were prob legitimate and that she has maybe made up some names as she has gone along??

So Lizzie Newsam married 1891 then has 2 children,she then marries in the name of Aldcock/Adcock.
There was a Lizzie Adcock born 1869 but she died in infancy.

Her 1st child still named Newsam in 1901 then suddenly changes to Gordon before 1911 census and marriage.

Could it have been due to Mr Gordon dying (or was he also married at the time of the 2 Newsam births) and they had to change name to inherit from a will or something!!

Very confusing one this.
Plus still can't find Hilary Jane under any surname in 1901.

Maryb

Lizzie is certainly a woman of mystery. I can't find Hilary on 1901 either Mary.
Jan

You have the marriage cert for Percy and Lizzie,who were the witnesses and did it give the father of Lizzie.

The Herbert C Fisher same house as Lizzie on 1891 census married Emily Middleton in 1900.He was still a solictors clerk in 1901.
His middle name Clement.

Just checking 1911 census Percy says married 11 years no children.
Lizzie says married 11 years 3 children 1 died!! so I wonder what surname she chose for the one that died???

Maryb.

where did you find lizzie in the 1911 census? I only have her in the eversfield chest and throat hos that Jan posted on page 1. Great point of Lizzies father... on wed cert john adcock deceased.

The details are from the same 1911 for Lizzie (I never checked image, sorry).
Jan

So is this Lizzie do we think?

1871 England Census

Name: Lizzey Adcock
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John Adcock
Mother's Name: Caroline Adcock
Gender: Female
Where born: Leamington, Warwickshire, England
Civil parish: Leamington
Town: Leamington
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Registration district: Warwick
Sub-registration district: Leamington

John Adcock 30
Caroline Adcock 29
Helen Adcock 3
Lizzey Adcock 2
Mary Clarke 16

Yes thats her!!!! You ladies are good! on her wedding cert to Percy david Simpson it says her father is a butcher...On that 1871 census it says John Adcock is a pork butcher!! So now I have to find where Gordon and Newsam come from! :-D

God, what a difficult woman! Even worse than me. I can only suppose she 'liaised' with men called Newsam & Gordon - but they must have been brief relationships!
Jan

Lol! Trying to explain to everyone is not easy! my mum had been looking for Hillary's parents for years, then I took over last year. we both need to take a trip up to the midlands and now tell hillarys yougest child..my great aunt!

Death John Adcock J/A/S 1871 Warwick.

Caroline Howard 1842 leamington married John Adcock.
Her death ?? Caroline Adcock Warwick 1892.

Daughter Helen is Ellen caroline Adcock Oct 1867 died Warwick 1912??
1901 she has with her Frederick F Adcock age 2 months.

Maryb

Mary, I was just about to say I can't find her parents 1881 though Helen is around as a servant. I think you have explained that! I don't think Helen ever married.
Not sure we have found Lizzie 1881 have we? (Losing the plot now!).
Jan

1911 50 waterloo St leamington.
Helen C Adcock Boarder single says 2 children
Frank Adcock boarder 1903.

Helen is not head of house but she has signed it.

Maryb.

Mm, not sure about this at all as it implies this 'Lizzie' is Clara's daughter:

1881 England Census

Name: Lizza Hadcock
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Step Daughter
Mother's Name: Clara Chapman
Gender: Female
Where born: Leamington, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Leamington Priors
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address: 24 Lansdown St

Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Warwick
Sub-registration district: Leamington
ED, institution, or vessel: 16

William Chapman 45
Clara Chapman 39
William Chapman 3
Lizza Hadcock 12

this is what we have so far.
1871.lizzey adcock b.1869 leamington with john,father,caroline,mother,and sister helen.
1891.john charles newsam born stratford upon avon
1891. lizzie newsam born 1869 leamington, visitor in house of the coles.
1893. hillairy jane newsam born barnet middx
1899. lizzie adcock marriesin chelsea percy david simpson, b 1877 manchester.
1901 lizzie simpson,john charles neusden & percy david simpson in
chelsea,london. john listed as percys stepson.
1911.percy david simpson,john charles gordon, hillairy jane gordon in
fish shop, birmingham.
1911.lizzie simpson, patient eversfield hosp. st.leonards on sea

So if Caroline did die 1891 then where is she 1881.
Can't see a 2nd marriage for her.

Maryb

This is so annoying.