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Burwood is s large suburb in inner Sydney.

Moree is in north western nsw

Thanks so much Moonbi...I don't know if I should make contact...I might wait until I get "Roys" birth certificate and go from there..I would to cause a problem for a family if there had been an adoption or something else and no one had been the wiser...although probably everyone would be passed on by now, but I suppose you never know.

Much appreciate all of your help & Cherilyn's...I can't wait until the birth certificate arrives, I guess if the day and the month are the same the chances are that it will be my person…and perhaps Elizabeth adopted him. Hopefully it won't take long to come through.

i had seen the hartley and brownlow marriage but there was also an Elizabeth Service who married a James Hartley...and then I found a death of a Margaret Bryans in 1889 and so on...but the death was in Moree so not sure if that is far from Burwood where "Roy" was born in 1898..or if that could be another false lead!

pm sent to Grace with the names of 2 Hartley family in the Culcairn-Holbrook district.
reference white pages 2010

there are no entries with the Spelling BryanS in this phone book, but there are Bryan and Bryant.

Grace
I have found a few entries in my local phone book
for Hartley in Culcairn, and one especially on the Culcairn -Holbrook road, which may be useful.
I shall pm them to you shall I.??

Thank you both I'll have a think about all this when I get 5 minutes today and get back to you both in more detail!

Cant seem to find any Bryans in Holbrook cemetery.

My guess is he is named ROY after his father.
and then James and Lizzie added the Clarence.
there aren't any other Bryans with Roy in there names.
are there?

my day is over and zzzzzz
check in tomorrow

thank you for all of that Cherilyn.

I realised the Penrith records were a long shot, but that was the only James who married Elizabeth I could find.

The only thing I can think of now is to know if he was adopted by James and Elizabeth.
Most people call there adopted parents "mum and dad"
wonder if he even knew about his birth parents then?

births
9636/1903 HARTLEY ELIZABETH M GEORGE MARGARET ALBURY
837/1905 HARTLEY WILLIAM J GEORGE MARGARET ALBURY
672/1907 HARTLEY IRENE M GEORGE A MARGARET ALBURY
35372/1908 HARTLEY BERTIE E GEORGE MARGARET GERMANTON
3661/1910 HARTLEY ELSIE D GEORGE MARGARET GERMANTON


death
1708/1913 HARTLEY LESLIE A GEORGE MAGGIE GERMANTON


OMG! Germanton became known as Holbrook during WWI! :-D

The Bryans-Hartley marriage in Albury does seem too much of a coincidence...maybe there never was a James Bryans?

Still, how did Margaret become Elizabeth, as you have already wondered???

moonbi

This is James Edmund HARTLEY, of Penrith. They had a daughter Edith J 1898 and son Edmund Albert 1900-1973. Both Jas and Elizabeth died in 1933, in Penrith. Her parents were shown as John & Mary A (but I suspect she is the Elizabeth Browlow born 1860 in Penrith to Mary, father not stated).

Jas did have a brother named George, but he died in Penrith in 1920.

HARTLEY-March 1, 1933, at her residence, Park street, Jamieson Town, Penrith, Elizabeth, beloved wife of James Edmund Hartley, aged 72
years.

He was interred at C of E cemetery Kingswood July 1933.

Seems unlikely to be a connection, since Penrith is so far from Albury.
Culcairn is only about 50km north of Albury, with Holbrook about half an hour east of Culcairn (I think).

did you see the record 8029/1896

for the marriage of James Hartley to Elizabeth Brownlow at Penrith (west of Sydney) ?
I wonder if this is a connection . its the only James H that is married to an Elizabeth , that I can see so far.

If only we could find James and Elizabeth marriage record.

did you go ahead and order James' death cert ?
where did he die again please?

or an obituary or death notice in any paper?
or was there a will ?

still looking for you

Actually scrap all that I suppose it doesn't make sense as Elizabeth has a husband named James Hartley, I suppose she would have changed her name to Hartley not have been a Hartley from the start!

Hmm I think Moonbi you were on the right rack!

In 1898 Roy Bryans is born in Burwood NSW to Margaret Bryans.

in 1902 A Margaret Bryans marries a George Hartley in Albury

George Hartley was born 1873 to John Hartley and mother Mary in Albury as was his sister Elizabeth, who was born in 1880 also in Albury.

Sooo maybe Margaret had the baby, gave it to George's sister Elizabeth to raise as some stage, and then later married George. :-)

Hi Moonbi,

No I live about an hour from Melbourne otherwise a coffee would be great!

I have Clarence's file, yes he went missing and was a POW and eventually came home wounded after being shot through the eye.

I found some death notices for Hartleys in the area of Culcairn but haven't yet linked them to who.

Thanks for the infor re the marriages :-)

oh so you have his AIF details stating that his address is Holbrook ?
enlisted 16th July 1917 aged 18 years
next of kin Lizzie Hartley mother
regiment number 3271
religion C of E
LAbourer


also http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/text/15787197

409th casualty list

missing
Ptc Clarence Ran. Bryans Culcairn


found, as he RTA 01 April 1919

Oh so you have his details from the AIF project.
regimental number 3271, religion church of England
Occupation labourer
Address: Holbrook nsw
single age 18
service 16 July 1917 and RTA 01 April 1919

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/text/15787197

409th casualty list
missing
PTc Clarence RAN. BRYANS Culcairn

must have got found as returned in 1919

nswbdm

reg 2050/1891
James Bryans married Maria J. Wedlock; Albury district

reg 1739/1893
William R Bryans married Emma Williams; Albury district

reg 528/1897
Samuel Bryans married Maria Shaw; Albury district


I will try to look at the local newpapers for these dates and following

no worries have fun !

Grace, do you live in the Albury area.?
if so we could meet for coffee

It is quite possible, not sure why it never occurred to me...lol think I must be looking at the forest and not seeing the tree.

I'll have a look now and check it out, thanks for your ideas!

:-)