Find Ancestors

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1330601

(don't want to bring above up, will add snippets relating here!)

Chris :)


(wonder which Son!)


11 November 1882 - Gloucester Citizen - Gloucester, Gloucestershire

Accident - On Thursday a son of Mr. Stoddart, of , 1 York Villas, London-road, was with some companions firing a cannon, when the bullet passed into his thigh just above the knee. Dr. Johnstone attended him, and extracted the bullet. He is now progressing satisfactorily.


11 January 1886 - Gloucester Citizen - Gloucester, Gloucestershire

Death
Stoddart - January 4, at Penygraig, Rhondda Valley, South Wales, David, second son of Mr. Robert Stoddart, London-road, Gloucester, aged 25 years.


16 November 1886 - Gloucester Citizen - Gloucester, Gloucestershire

Marriage
Stoddart - Holdsworth - November 8, at St. John's parish church, Blackpool, by the Rev. N. S. Jeffrey, M.A., vicar, Albert Frederick, fifth son of Mr. Robert Stoddart, of Gloucester, to Mary Isabella, second daughter of Mr. W. Holdsworth, of Blackpool.


05 May 1888 - Gloucester Citizen - Gloucester, Gloucestershire,

Marriage
Stoddart - Mogford - May 3 at the Parish Church, Ystradyfodwg, Joseph Cornelius, second son of Robert and Elizabeth Stoddart, of Gloucester, to Martha Jane, daughter of William Mogford Ponthir near Newport (Mon.)


16 October 1926 - Gloucester Citizen - Gloucester, Gloucestershire

Death
STODDART - October 14th, Elizabeth, widow of the late Robert Stoddart, aged 91 years.


04 April 1908 - Gloucester Journal - Gloucester, Gloucestershire (Saturday)

Sunday last was the fiftieth anniversary of the wedding day of Mr. and Mrs. Robert Stoddart, of 1 York-viilas, London-road, Gloucester. The wedding was solemnised at St. Bartholomew’s Church, Churchdown, on the 29th March. 1858. After climbing the hill to be married, Mr. and Mrs. Stoddart returned to live at 1, York villas where they still reside.


http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1222274

(see hill on above, phew!, lol)


edits

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966 (Ancestry)

Name: Elizaabeth Stoddart
Probate Date: 27 Oct 1926
Death Date: 14 Oct 1926
Death Place: Gloucestershire, England
Registry: Gloucester

(of 1 York villas Hyde lane Gloucester widow. Probate to William Robert Stoddart retired customs officer. Effects £96 10s)

Chris thanks - will have a play with all this. I never did find the Stoddarts in 1871.

No, you wouldn't want to be climbing that hill every Sunday :-)

Jude

Chris, thanks for the Dando info....so the incestuous weaves of Stoddart and Sergeant get worse! So Hilda and her husband were cousins......

I know Caerleon well - my daughters went to school there and my gran and my dad's sister lived there for many years. It is a small village (larger now with modern builds) and trawling the electoral rolls shows the same names streets in street out..... ;-)

So Chris, re:

Births Mar 1932 (>99)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dando Reginald B Stoddart Newport M 11a 263


On the same entry is my mother-in-law's brother Richard E(rnest) Mead mmn Stoddart (Winifred). So am I to believe that Hilda Sergeant who married her first cousin James Dando had a child Reginald Bladon and said her maiden name was Stoddart (as in Martha who I am sure was her mother) rather than Sargeant?

I need a drink!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-S ;-)

Well, lol, mystery never ends!...Caerleon holds a lot of answers, somewhere!.

Chris :)

(drink away!)

Well still waiting for all the death certificates...which stymies my plans tomorrow for another visit to the library as I wouldn't know quite what I was looking for lol!

Curiosity has gotten the best of me and I have sent for Reginald's birth certificate - it's diverging from the original query but it is so compelling :-)

Would be good to find out what happened to 8 Uskside...one year it was there and the next - gone! I might even take a visit tomorrow if time pans out ok (off again...this time for 33rd wedding anniversary :-) )

do you think that there could be some baptism's for Winifred
or Hilda some where.

bit odd for 1st cousin's to marry - though I do say it happens among
travellers at times .

my but what a mixed up family you have

Mavis

I have given up on anything for Winifred :-(

Hilda and her husband are definitely first cousins according to the birth certificates...but believe me Caerleon (like areas of Pontypool such as Trevethin) are absolutely INCESTUOUS!!!!!

Seriously...I have side lines where brothers married sisters so what a tangled web my branched tree is :-)

1st cousin marriages are not unheard of....but they often have problems with miscarriages because of the close genetic ties...such as Charles Darwin (prophetically)

Jude

Good way to spend anniversary Jude, in Archives, lol, hubby's ancestors after all!, reckon he'll be paying for all these certs., your present!!.

Good Luck...

(wonder what Marriage for Hilda reveals, or witnesses for Winifred, did you say you have that?)

Ha ha - no Chris, certificates all paid for by me (my guilty pleasure) :-)

Yes I have both Hilda's and Winifred's marriage certs.

Winifred married as Winifred Florence Stoddart - in fact the only time the May comes up is on my mother-in-law's birth certificate in which her husband gave his first wife's Christian names of Esther May and on her death certificate; so it may have just been him!

Witnesses were Eliza J. T. Thomas - this is John James' married sister (the T is actually Florence!) and what looks like M. Doherty - no idea who this is/was

Hilda's witnesses were Martha and Salome Eliza Hughes who was Martha's sister. She drpped the Hilda and married as Marjorie. Ten years later there is a postscript entered amending Frederick Dando (father-in-law) to Frederick Percy and noting for Marjorie read "Hilda Marjorie"

A quick update - more to follow in the week when hubby is back in work :-)

Well birth certificate confirmed Winifred Florence Mary not moine.

But the three death certificates I have are illuminating!

OK starting with Martha Jane who died 21 September 1936 at home 8 Uskside Caerleon....firstly she states herself to be the widow of Joseph Cornelius Stoddart (more later) and the informant was H.M. Dando Daughter :-) So that nails it that William lied when registering the birth of Hilda.

So then 22 February 1943 Joseph Cornelius Stoddart dies....so Martha wasn't a widow after all.......informant B.W. Stoddart, son. Bertie Wyndham the one living child declared in 1911 census.

And then to 29 August 1947 William Sargent of 30 Bolt Street Newport. Informant A.C. Sargeant brother. - Charles Augustus I believe. But 30 Bolt STreet was the home of Winifred and John James and was where she died in 1954. Which probably clinches it that he was her father....though I guess I will never ever prove it.

Jude

Well Done Jude, gradually coming together, was Uskside same address for Joseph 1946?.

Tangled web being unravelled, more to come, sounds like a Christmas soap plot, lol.

Chris :)

No Chris, although Joseph's death is registered under Caerleon District, the sub-district is Mynyddislwyn and the place of death was 16 Brachty Terrace Kendon Abercarn - somewhere else to trawl through sometime.

So in 1901 Joseph was a licensed victualler in the Rickard Arms in Ystradyfodwg. Martha and Bertie are there with him

By 1911, Martha has pitched up at Uskside the house she lived in until her death in 1936. And Joseph is now a miner boarding with a family in Abercarn where he apparently stayed until he died.

So what prompted the apparent schism and the change of occupation?

Harriett married Robert Sargeant in 1883 - so is that how Martha met William?

Having a pre-Christmas visit to my in-laws today - shall I ask her if she "knew" William Sargeant and Hilda Dando?

Jude

As you know a fair bit on Dando's, no harm in name dropping in conversation, sometimes jogs memory, even if later, when she has had time to digest things a bit...

Can see Bertie W 1911 with uncle Sydney Augustus.

(other Stoddart lot seem straight forward!, lol)

Chris :)

So Sarah Ellen's death certificate arrived today and it's not her. Wrong husband.

So all suggestions welcomed for a death between 1891 and 1901 for Sarah Ellen :-)

Jude

are you sure that she died before 1901 census ???


Mavis

NO but her husband declares himself to be a widower....there is little to suggest she is complicit in the other intrigue. But if she hadn't died then where is she in 1901 or 1911 come to that

Jude

So the final certificate arrived today...and this dysfunctional woman Hilda Marjorie...born as daughter of William Sargeant and Sarah Sergeant formerly Mogford (lie on two counts...not daughter of Sarah and Sarah not married to William) who married as Hilda Sergeant....who declared herself to be Martha's daughter on Martha's death certificate gives birth to a son and the mother is Hilda Marjorie Dando formerly Stoddart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If nothing else, I think I have proved conclusively that Martha was her mother, not her aunt. And that Martha and William had a long-standing relationship. And that Martha was a born liar :-)

I still think Martha may well have been Winifred's mother too. And that William may well have been her father. But proving it - hell no!

But what happened to Martha and William after 1925???

More questions, lol.

Chris :)

(I see somebody has Robert Dando 1907 Hilda M 1908, and another with Reginald in search all member trees here!)

edits

Reginald Death 2001 Newport M.

mmm Maybe I'll search - I don't usually on here!

Didn't get to see her this week - hubby ill and her - iller (sic!!!)

Jude