Find Ancestors

So, haven't you searched at FreeBMD for his death?

It had to be between 1861 adn 1871, it would seem.

Three Thomas Coopers died in Macclesfield reg dist 1861-1865 -- before ages were shown in the GRO index.

But isn't this likely him?

Deaths Sep 1868
Cooper Thomas 90 Macclesfield 8a 104 = dob c1778

Nice round age, could be just rounded -- but does match the baptism record I posted above rather perfectly.

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations),1861-1941
about Thomas Cooper
Name: Thomas Cooper
Probate Date: 5 July 1861
Death Date: 14 May 1861
Death Place: Chester, Cheshire, England
Registry: Chester

(Executors for above were Sons, James of Macclesfield Forest, Thomas and John both of Sutton (all Farmers) address at death for Thomas was Sutton. Effects under £600)

Chris :)

Well rats, some *other* 90-yr-old Thomas Cooper died in 1868??

Yup.

Here's our Thomas in 1861:

Name: Thomas Cooper
Age: 80
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1781
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Nancy Cooper
Gender: Male
Where born: Wildboar Clough, Cheshire, England
Civil parish: Sutton

and here's the other one:

Name: Thomas Cooper
Age: 84
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1777
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Phebe Cooper
Gender: Male
Where born: Macclesfield, Cheshire, England
Civil parish: Macclesfield


So unfortunately the baptism I posted at the very bottom of page 1 is very probably that imposter too.

I'm just going to play with my older-generation Coopers from Wildboarclough a bit more ...


1841 in Prestbury

James Cooper 55 - Farmer, address "Parks"
Marcy Cooper 40 it's Mary
Thomas Cooper 9
William Cooper 3
Daniel Cooper 50

This will be the Daniel in 1851 with nephew William, obviously having taken over James's farm.

Next household in 1841 in Prestbury is John Cooper aged 20 with wife and daughter. The next household past him -- address also "Benet Sitch"? -- is

John Cooper 45
Enock Cooper 20
Danial Cooper 15
Sarah Cooper 15

They are all in Prestbury - Sutton - District 14 - township of Wildboarclough, page 5 of 7 for that place (3 of 4 in Ancestry's images). That is, Wildboarclough accounts for 6 census pages in 1841 (there's one name on page 7), a total of 150 or so people.

Your Thomas is in Prestbury - Rainow - District 7 - township of Macclesfield Forest - District 7, page 7 of 11.




Simon ... I google ...

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/trying_to_find/cooper/thread/982627

You have gone back and marked the last post in that thread as "answered" for some reason ... and that was only possible in the last couple of weeks ... so you hadn't forgotten that you had a thread back in 2007-2008 about these same people ...


Back then you said

"Thomas 1781 is my direct descendent I am 95% sure. James 1815 was his son then Thomas 1852. William 1879 who married Ellen and then my Grandma Evelyn in 1901."

You have definitely confirmed each link in this chain now, I assume!



And ... just what happened here?

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/trying_to_find/cooper/thread/1263912

That thread was started on April 1, 2011: "Thomas Cooper 1781". You have deleted the thread. Google still has it cached.

Granted, it had a fair few of Ann o' GG's random records (the Cheshire land records dates are not dates of birth), but she also posted the gravestone transcription you presented in this thread, taken from

Some Memorial Inscriptions - Macclesfield Forest, Cheshire
St Stephen's Churchyard

which you then said you had.


For some reason in that thread you have named Thomas as William.


K found and posted the 41, 51, 61 censuses for him, and suggested this marriage:

Spouse: ANN NIXON
04 DEC 1810 Prestbury, Cheshire, England

(Since the first likely birth I see for your couple was in 1811, I'd certainly agree.)


Maryb said: Thomas died 1868 and Nancy 1872.

She may have been making the same assumption re Thomas's death as I did. I don't know what her source was.


K proposed that you investigate Cheshire wills and listed these:

JAMES COOPER WILDBOARCLOUGH YEOMAN 1765
DANIEL COOPER WILDBOARCLOUGH YEOMAN 1778
JOHN COOPER WILDBOARCLOUGH YEOMAN 1803
DANIEL COOPER WILDBOARCLOUGH FARMER 1824
HANNAH COOPER WILDBOARCLOUGH SPINSTER 1827
JAMES COOPER WILDBOARCLOUGH YEOMAN 1828
JAMES COOPER WILDBOARCLOUGH FARMER 1848
DANIEL COOPER WILDBOARCLOUGH FARMER 1855
MOSES COOPER WILDBOARCLOUGH, HIGHER NABS FARMER 1867
JAMES COOPER WILDBOARCLOUGH FARMER 1879

These are for Macclesfield Forest

MOSES COOPER MACCLESFIELD FOREST YEOMAN 1819
JAMES COOPER MACCLESFIELD FOREST YEOMAN 1880
WILLIAM COOPER MACCLESFIELD FOREST FARMER 1881


I note all the same names I have spent time researching in this thread.


Your last post in that thread, at least at the point that google cached it, was April 3, 2011.


Any special reason why you deleted it and started a new one?

At least I've caught this before someone else goes off researching Cheshire wills for you or doing something else already done, anyway.

You do know that having a thread, getting information, and then deleting it and starting a new one is not compliance with the no-duplicates rule.

Hi JC

You have been busy.

The reason why I started a new thread was because my original thread disappeared from my threads. I did not delete it. I lost all the information kindly provided.

I have just got home and it is late so I will read through the thread tomorrow.

Thanks for your help.

Well, odd.

If you want to get a copy of the thread for your own records, google

JAMES COOPER WILDBOARCLOUGH YEOMAN 1765

and your thread will come up. Click on "Cached" to read and copy it.

It's not there

Error
Thread does not exist

How come you can see a thread and I can't.

Sometimes GR frustrates me.

No, like I said, click on CACHED in the google search results ...

www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/.../cooper/.../1263912 - >>>>Cached

Try this

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:opLb_tm1stQJ:www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/trying_to_find/cooper/thread/1263912+JAMES+COOPER+WILDBOARCLOUGH+YEOMAN+1765&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&source=www.google.ca

Just copy and paste ;)

If you're using the new Firefox, you can do this

Block that URL as if you are about to copy it.

Right click, select "open in new tab".

JC

Thanks you are a star.

How come I can't see it but I can if I copy that URL.

Where is it now? and where did it go?

I will have a good luck through both threads and c&p from the other thread any relevant information.

You can then delete your posts above.

Chris's post above looks like details of my Thomas. The names of the sons match my Thomas and it's the right location and occupations.



:D

Do you think this is the right Thomas's birth?

I got a bit lost reading the thread

.Name: Thomas Cooper
Gender: Male
Event Type: Christening
Birth Date:
Christening Date: 30 Aug 1778
Birthplace:
Christening Place: St Michael, Macclesfield, Cheshire, England
Father's Name: William Cooper
Mother's Name: Han.
Principal's Marital Status:
Principal's Residence: St. Michael, Macclesfield, Cheshire, England
Image Number: 70
Digital Folder Number: 4018409
Film Number: 1656951
Collection: England, Cheshire Bishop's Transcripts, 1598-1900

That does tie in with the 1841 census

St Michaels is in the centre of Macclesfield 13 miles from where I am now.
8 miles from Wildboarclough.

That's what several of us tentatively think, I think!

Are you enjoying Victoria Day?

Are you planting the garden up today with annuals?

Tentatively?

Several of us?

I think?

This is not your usual way of talking in black and white and facts

What makes you a and others a little unsure?

If that is him

I then have his BMD records
I have 41, 51 and 61 census records
His Will
Land & Tax records for Winshaw Farm
Viewed the Tithe map online (this is a great mapping site)
http://maps.cheshire.gov.uk/tithemaps/TwinMaps.aspx?singleplot=EDT_255-2*117*EDT_255-1&singlesrch=st.1!n.Thomas+Cooper!x.0


His father William, mother Hannah or Ann.

Where were they married?

Can some kind GR member please look up these Coopers on the Census records please/

John James COOPER
Late of Toothill, Macclesfield Forest, 5 Jan 1939, 57
Lucy, w, 12 Jan 1967, 84
Thomas COOPER, s, & h/o Gladys, 1 May 1988, 81
Gladys, above, 6 April 1996, 89

Tentative because there's just no way of matching that Thomas to yours. It's not like with later periods where one can find a birth and then trace the person through marriage, death, the censuses showing place of birth and parents, etc. There just isn't a comprehensive database before 1837 -- that Thomas could have died in infancy, for all we know.

Right, what you really want is

John James Cooper born c1881
Thomas Cooper born c1906-7.

Have you looked at FreeBMD to get accurate birth times? When and where they married? Are there not likely to be quite a few people in censuses by those names and with those approx ages? Do you know their parents' names?

C'mon, look them up in the censuses is a bit of a tall and time-consuming task w/o a bit more info at lest.

Hi JC , I have looked for more evidence for Thomas and Samuel but I couldn't,t find anything. I thought the two Coopers were interesting. I thought someone could find them due to the address given. Toothill is a farm in Macc Forest. Can you search by address? Thanks Simon

Oh I forgot to say on the 1851 and 1861 census James Cooper son of Thomas was farming at Toothill Farm but by 1871 he was farming at Winshaw Farm which had much more acreage.

However I do not have John James Cooper in my tree but I guess we must be connected.

I do have a James son of Thomas born 1876.

Two John James Coopers on Free BMD


Births Mar 1875 (>99%)
Cooper John James Macclesfield 8a 140
Births Mar 1882 (>99%)
Cooper John James Macclesfield 8a 150

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1270217

Makes me not happy.

The hypothetical question there was about searching for the farm in censuses, which led to:


To search by address in 1881 all you do is go there (free of charge at Ancestry I thought you knew)

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=7572&enc=1

and put Winshaw in the address box.

First up is a servant at Winshaw Farm.

Clicking on him, we get the household:

Thomas Cooper 29
Ann Cooper 29
Sarah Cooper 7
James Cooper 5
William Cooper 2
Fred Cooper
Sarah Longden 14
George Baley 22

They are at "Winshaw", which plainly refers to Winshaw farm (George Baley being a "farm servant", e.g.)

Ann Cooper aged 64 is on the next page at Winshaw cottage.

transferring again ...

Simon, it doesn't say Winshaw Cottage at Ancestry.


Name: Fred Cooper
Relation: Son
Father's name: Thomas Cooper
Mother's name: Ann Cooper
Where born: Macclesfield Forest, Cheshire, England

Civil parish: Macclesfield Forest
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

>>> Street Address: Winshaw


And that's exactly what it says on the original image.

The *next* page has Winshaw cottage, with the sr. Ann Cooper and household.




The thing with nobody coming back to this thread is, as I said, one can only adopt somebody else's ancestor hunt for so long, and so intensely.

I felt like we'd all found what we could here.

Looking for a John Cooper born who knows where sometime around 1881, who ended up in the right area decades later ... well, I tried, but I didn't find anybody. He was not with the Thomas and Ann 1881 household in 1891.

The Thomas Cooper born 1906-07, again, you need to do the FreeBMD search to try to identify his birth, and then look for him in 1911 (I don't have a subscription for that myself).

"Thomas COOPER, s, & h/o Gladys, 1 May 1988, 81
Gladys, above, 6 April 1996, 89"

?? Try FreeBMD for a marriage of Thomas Cooper and Gladys and see where they were ... look for children, if her surname wasn't as common as Cooper ... Sorry, but I just couldn't see what you wanted that anybody could do more than you could with!

Apologies

I really do appreciate your insight and lateral thinking.

I will check out Thomas and Gladys as you suggest.

many thanks

Simon

This must be Thomas and Gladys marriage

Marriages Jun 1933 (>99%)
Cooper Thomas Wheelton Macclesfield 8a 343

June 1933 Thomas Cooper and Gladys Wheelton