Find Ancestors

I have a challenge for Australian researchers. It has me stumped absolutely. Two trees with the same person but with different information. There has to be another person of the same name.

This is my tree which I am working on.

Ann Mandaville b. 1820
“married” (approx 1842) (1) George Dixon b. 1809 (Daughter - Mary Ann Dixon b. 1842 )

married 1844 (2) Henry James Wright Clarence River District.

Children Ann Mandaville and Henry Wright were Susannah b. 1846, Harriet b. 1848 and Hannah b. 1851. All born Grafton area.

Hannah is the person of interest. According to my info she was known as Annie. This fact caused a problem with searching for her marriage etc details.

Hannah/Annie b. 1851 married Joseph Kemp on 6 Jul 1873
They had one daughter Agnes b. 1878 Grafton NSW
Agnes married Robert Robertson McGill in 1901
They had twins, a girl Mysie and a boy who did not survive in 1904
>>>>>Hannah Kemp died in April 1939 aged 87 years in Ryde NSW.

All of these details are covered by NSW BDM.


This is JA’s tree. Her info is the same as mine except when we get to Hannah Wright.


Ann Mandaville b. 1820
“married” (approx 1842) (1) George Dixon b. 1809 (Daughter - Mary Ann Dixon b. 1842 )

married 1844 (2) Henry James Wright Clarence River District.

Children of Ann Mandaville and Henry Wright were Susannah b. 1846, Harriet b. 1848 and Hannah b. 1851. All born Grafton area.

JA’s tree changes here:

Hannah Wright born 09 Oct 1851
Armidale, New South Wales,

>>>>>>Death 21 Jul 1930 DIFFERENT
>>>>>>Parkes, New South Wales, Australia
Father: Henry Wright (1819-1862)

Mother: Ann Mandaville (1820-1865)

Spouse: William H Barber (1847-1941)
Married 1868 Children
William James (1870-1958)
Charlotte Ann (1872-)
Harriet Hannah (1873-1963)
George Henry (1876-1964)
John (1877-1968)
Charles Joshua (1880-1967)
Thomas E (1882-1950)
Ernest Alfred (1884-1956)
Walter S (1887-1968)
Lyda Maud (1890-1954)
Leith (1892-1942)

Now I don’t need rocket science to see that the Hannah Wright could not be the same person who married Joseph Kemp and William Barber. I can not find another NSW birth for Hannah Wright in the dates which would fit.

This leaves me to wonder if either (a) she was born elsewhere and migrated to Australia or (b) she was born in another Australian state.

If the solution to this puzzle comes down to certificates which ones would be the most logical to acquire.

Thank you. BTW JA is a relative newcomer to family history research and I am introducing her to GR.

I have checked N.S.W. bdm, these are the details of the death in Parkes, different parents name

Reg No/Yr Surname Name Fathers Name Mothers Name District
13665/1930 Barber Hannah William Hannah Parkes

To be sure you have the correct death details, probably best to get Kemp death certificate.

If you go to www.joymurrin.com.au you can purchase images cheaper

Thank you Mel75. Of course when Hannah Wright died she would have been Hannah Barber. Father William (instead of Henry) and mother Hannah (instead of Ann/Annie/Hannah).

So need to look for a birth for Hannah Wright with a father William and a mother Hannah.

Death certificate for Annie Kemp will show her parents names. And Joy Murrin and I are on credit card usage terms already, good suggestion.

The only birth that I could find on nsw bdm of Hannah Wright, born to William & Hannah, was in Chippendale 3069/1863, definitely not your Hannah/Annie

Just a thought, could the Hannah Wright who married Barber was previously married?

Sorry, been screaming at the umpire at footy.
All the Barber children have William as their father, except two who have William J as their father. All the children have Hannah, Anna, or Annie as their mother except the two who have William J as the father and their mother is Eveline M. for "Unnamed" and Sarah for Harriet H. ,who JA could not find a birth for.

18241/1880 BARBER CHARLES J WILLIAM ANNIE MOLONG
24623/1884 BARBER ALFRED E WILLIAM ANNA MOLONG
21075/1882 BARBER THOMAS E WILLIAM HANNAH MOLONG
14429/1875 BARBER GEORGE WILLIAM HANNAH MOLONG
22108/1890 BARBER LYDIA M WILLIAM HANNAH MOLONG
27685/1888 BARBER UNNAMED WILLIAM J EVELINE M MOLONG
26944/1887 BARBER STUART WILLIAM HANNAH MOLONG
15335/1877 BARBER JOHN WILLIAM ANNA MOLONG
21417/1894 BARBER HARRIET H WILLIAM J SARAH MOLONG
22913/1892 BARBER LEATH WILLIAM HANNAH MOLONG
13566/1873 BARBER CHARLOTTE A WILLIAM HANAHA MOLONG

If Hannah/Annie had been married before she married William Barber her name would be different on the marriage registration. Would it not also be different on her birth certificate. She would not be Hannah Wright (maiden name) marrying William Barber. She would be Hannah Wright nee ????? marrying William Barber.

Now I am very mixed up.

This is the response from JA.


I will say that the death certificate for my Hannah was always something I dismissed as being possibly inaccurate more than likely.

I think the person filling in that form may have had a 'moment' and could have written Hannah and William's own names in the area that said mother / father. You know. It could have been one of Hannah and Williams children filling in the form and misunderstanding what those two questions meant. I.e; mother and father of living children not mother and father of Hannah. Just a thought.

I have decided to order their marriage certificate for my Hannah and William. You will see her birth certificate lists 'Henry' and 'Ann' as her mother and father. Same as your Hannah. Lets see what she herself wrote on her marriage certificate and let's hope it is on there.

I will also do some searches for any obituarys for the Hannah I have dying in Parkes. I may even call the Cemetery and find out who the undertakers were. They may still have records which will clear up the death certificate issues.

I will keep you posted. Back on board and happy to chat/ work together anytime to resolve this mystery.

Hi There, I just noticed your message and have to tell you I have a Hannah Wright in my tree, born about 1853 died 21st July 1930. Married William Barber 29th Oct, 1868 in Orange. The parents of Hannah were Hannah Browning and James Wright married 1848 and had 16 children. I have a book on the Browning family if this is of interest to you. Regards Alana

Alana, You have hiccups. Just delete two of your three messages if you wish. Click the Delete button at the top of YOUR post. Don't delete all your replies, please because I am very interested in your message and I know someone else will be as well.

I need to introduce you to someone because you have the same people in your tree. I know she is currently waiting for certificates to come to prove that her Hannah and my Hannah are two different people.

Heaven help us if they are not. Will be a fine kettle of fish to sort out.

Give me a while so I can message my co-conspirator and request permission for me to give you her email address. I will then send you a PM with the details. You can then swap family history stories and have lots of lovely arguments about who your Hannah married and why she is not my Hannah, (who isn't really my Hannah but an offshoot of my OHs complicated tree).

I shall return.

Edit. OK I have messaged her. I will be away for a few hours but will check back when I am home again.

Hi There, not a problem, look forward to hearing from you. If I can be of help and give any info to your friend I will willing do so. Regards Alana :-)

Hi Alana, I have made contact and I am sending you a personal message. This means I will click on your name and you will receive a message in your messages in box. You should see a white envelope on the Messages spot on the dark green bar at the top (above the words Community).

I am sending you an email address which is not permitted to be shown on the boards.

I am including a lot of information in case you are not yet familiar with the process. If I am teaching the suck eggs process ignore me.

Not a problem, I'm always willing to listen to recomendations from Members on Genes. Thanks, Alana :-)

2011 was the last time someone posted ! I’m hoping someone is still active on here, my name is Nicole Barber-White I’m 22, my family are the barbers and I’m TRYING to put a family tree together, it’s been exhausting! I have only just stumbled across this site I was previously using ancestry.com, and iv hit a brick wall and cannot get any further, I’m stuck with Hannah Wright’s side, as William her spouse is my 3rd great grandfather, I’m stuck with her parents names, dates etc, is someone able to get in contact with me and help me out ? Pleaseeeee !

Welcome to the boards, Nicole.

You can try sending AuntySherlock a private message - just click on her name at the top of one of her posts. If she has kept GR informed of any changes in email address, she'll be notified that she has a message from you, and may (or may not) reply.

She's not likely to be looking for replies here on the thread after so long.

However, one of the current helpers on the boards may be able to find something for you.

Sending Nicole a PM with possible help for contacting Aunty Sherlock.

Hi Nicole

Do you have this obituary for Hannah BARBER nee WRIGHT, who died in 1930 in NSW? This confirms she was born in Armidale and it includes all of her children with William.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/113552548

And a great article about her husband William ,from earlier that same year:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/218365496

I'd say it is definite that there are two different Hannah's here. The names of Hannah BARBER's parents on her death cert are informant error (her own and her husband's given names - quite common!)

The first - who married Joseph KEMP - was this one:
2653/1851 V18512653 38
HANNAH WRIGHT
Father: HENRY
Mother: ANN

The other - who married Wm BARBER - was this one:
988/1853 V1853988 40
ANNA WRIGHT
Father JAMES
Mother ANNA

Hannah and Anna used interchangeably.

As Alana posted above - the 2nd Hannah's parents were Hannah Browning and James Wright who married in 1848 and lived in Armidale.

I have unfortunately not heard back from AuntySherlock and I haven't heard from Nicole as to whether she received any message from her so I'm assuming not. I know a few of us tried to get hold of her about 4 years ago, but I believe it was to no avail then.

I got hold of her JC and she was having a break from genealogy for a while. Mind you, it is 3 years ago so I don't know if her email has changed. I will pm you with it. Cx

Thanks Cyns and D (PMs), I tried all 3 of the email addresses I had for her, but not the work one as she seems not to be working there anymore. But D has passed on one more so I'll forward my message there too.

(Her FB page seems pretty unused.)

AuntyS did abandon genealogy, but she might still be interested to see the puzzle solved and meet someone else who was puzzled!

Have you tried her through Ancestry JC?