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Thanks so much Catherine. I am beginning to think that perhaps John did not emmigrate to the USA but visited it, or lived there and returned to Scotland - either that or he may have left his wife behind.. um.. Does it say how many living children she had on her death certificate?

No. I have looked for his death, as yet still to be found.

Catherine

Thanks Catherine, I can't find his death either, or any reference to the John and Annie in the 1911 Census, Perhaps Annie returned to Scotland after John died in the USA. If Annie was indeed a widow, then John died between 1925 and 1941....somewhere!

There may some credence to 2 wives. This is his draft registration and he lists his wife as Elizabeth Robertson Dougan.

Name: John Hall Dougan
City: Manhattan
County: New York
State: New York
Birth Date: 2 Jul 1876
Race: White
FHL Roll Number: 1766248
DraftBoard: 126
Age:

Catherine

This is Elizabeth Robertson in 1901.

Name: Elizabeth Robertson
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relationship: Servt (Servant)
Gender: Female
Where born: Glasgow, co Lanark
Registration Number: 562/2
Registration district: Eastwood Landward
Civil parish: Eastwood
County: Renfrewshire
Address: Hazelwood
Occupation: Housemaid Domestic
ED: 17
Household schedule number: 168
Line: 8
Roll: CSSCT1901_192
Household Members:
Name Age
John Youden 30
Mary Jane Youden 50
Susannah M Youden 28
William A Youden 26
Herbert A Youden 16
Alice M Youden 12
Sidney E Youden 10
Elizabeth Robertson 21

When John Dougan travels to US in 1910 he lists his birth as Busby . Where Eliz is working is about 1.5 to 2 miles away from Busby.

Absolute speculation.

Catherine

So, possible... Family lore says that Bella was raised as the child of his parents - her grandparents, so something must have been amiss with Annie and John if they did not raise their daughter, plus he went to the USA and everyone else went to NZ - where would I look for divorces in Scotland?
Thanks for your interest Catherine, I need all the extra brain power on this one!

Rereading the 1920 US Census, I noticed that Elizabeth Robertson Dougan was born in Scotland.
I haven't been able to find any record of her, or her mother Barbara Robertson except for the possible housemaid at Busby. Any ideas?

I've just been on the Ellis Island site and found the following
The second page (First one is not available due wrong page being scanned)
Barbara Robertson - widow from Glasgow to New York May 9 1910 on the Californian visiting her daughter E Robertson "Lizzie" at 310 Pacific Street in Brooklyn, NY. Lizzie's sister is also on board, though because of the error I cannot see her name.

So then I found Lizzie Robertson 30 Weaver single Scottish, last address Rutherglen, 2 Moray Place Rutherglen
Onboard the California from Glasgow to NY sailed 8th Jan 1910 - visiting a friend in Paterson NY.
This all seems to tally up, so I think this is my Elizabeth - born in Scotland, came to the USA a month before John Dougan - not sure if they knew each other and were rendezvousing in NY, then four months later her mother and sister join her.

So if this is correct, it would mean that John Dougan and Elizabeth Robertson were married in the USA (If they were legally married).

1881 Scotland -
Name: Barbara Robertson
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's name : James Robertson
Gender: Female
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 644/1
Registration district: Bridgeton
Civil parish: Glasgow Barony
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 35 Adelphi St
ED: 59
Household schedule number: 71
Line: 12
Roll: cssct1881_216
Household Members:
Name Age
James Robertson 29
Barbara Robertson 30
Barbara Robertson 3
Elizh Robertson 1

1891

Name: Barbara Robertson
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's name : James Robertson
Gender: Female
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 654
Registration district: Rutherglen
Civil parish: Rutherglen
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 47 Cathcart Rd
Occupation: Stoker on Steam Ship Wife
ED: 5
Household schedule number: 146
Line: 12
Roll: CSSCT1891_321
Household Members:
Name Age
James Robertson 39
Barbara Robertson 40
Elizabeth Robertson 11
James Robertson 9
Barbara Robertson 7
John Robertson 4
William Robertson 2

They only query I have is - Is the John Dougan travelling in 1910 the correct John Dougan?

Catherine

It is the right one in his passport application he says he entered the US 1910 and has stayed there interrupted for 14 years. This is the one with his father named and living in Alexandria.

Catherine

Yes, I think this is all adding up so far. Every addition on this thread appears to be the right John Dougan/Elizabeth Robertson etc. Wonderful! Thank you.
I also noted on the Ellis Island site two Robertson families from Rutherglen into Patterson NY in 1903 + 1905 James and John Robertson (Fathers) so these are probably Elizabeth's brothers and families emigrating ahead of her and her mother- seems like the whole clan relocated to NY over a 7 year period, while John's entire family chose NZ.
I am struggling to find info on John and Elizabeth's marriage, and any more on daughter Barbara, though it is possible she died after the 1920 census. (I would love to find some cousins though!!!)
Also, is there any way to find out if John and Annie legally divorced in Scotland?
Thank you, thank you for your help Catherine :-) :-)

Also, I found that Elizabeth's mother is with her daughter named Barbara - on the Ellis Island site, still couldn't see the first page, but matched up last name with date and ship.

No problem.

National Archives for Scotland - not sure there was a divorce.

Catherine

Thanks to everyone for helping me with John Dougan. I now know he married Annie Gadsby, had a daughter Bella, emmigrated alone to the USA in 1910 (unsure if he divorced first) . Remarried or partnered up with Elizabeth Robertson, and had another daughter Barbara in 1918. He returned to say goodbye to his parent s in Scotland in 1924, and then appears on the 1930 Census and that is the last I know of him. I still have many questions, but i am astonished to know this much.


Now I am looking for what happened to his youngest brother James b 1895 (estimated from the Census) He is living with his parents in Bonhill, Dunbarton in 1911, aged 17. That's all I have been able to find out. I have not been able to trace his marriage, WW1 service? or death. The family lore is that he was the only brother who stayed in Scotland. Thanks so much for any help you can provide. His parents info.other census' etc are all on this thread. The family did not use second names, but sometimes they inserted "Hall" their mother's maiden name on applications.
Thanks
Janet

This maybe him but there is no age given:

ame: James Dougan
Birth Place: Alexandria, Dumbartonshire
Death Date: 22 Sep 1917
Death Location: France & Flanders
Enlistment Location: Dumbarton, Dumbartonshire
Rank: Private
Regiment: Seaforth Highlanders (Ross-shire Buffs, the Duke of Albany's)
Battalion: 7th Battalion
Number: 204264
Type of Casualty: Died of wounds
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

Catherine

CWGc

DOUGAN, JAMES
Initials: J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Private
Regiment/Service: Seaforth Highlanders
Unit Text: 7th Bn.
Age: 23
Date of Death: 22/09/1917
Service No: 204264
Additional information: Son of Mr. and Mrs. Peter Dougan, of 24, Church St., Alexandria, Dumbartonshire.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 132 to 135 and 162A.
Memorial: TYNE COT MEMORIAL

Catherine

Thank you Catherine,
This is definitely him, no one ever spoke of him dying in the war, so its a bit of a shock to take in. His brother, my husbands grandfather survived the whole war but would not talk about it, perhaps this is why.
Thank you for connecting us with a special piece of our past.

Wow, I am down to the last sybling, with lots of help I have been able to trace all of the rest. Looking for info on...
Rose Ann Dougan - Dugan - Duggans
Parents Peter Dougan and Elizabeth Hall
Born c 1878 in Bonhill, Lanarkshire, Scotland
1881 census 3 years old name Rosanna
1891 census 13 years old name Rose Ann
1901 census - not with the family
Just about everyone else in her family emmigrated to New Zealand, but I cannot find out if she went out single or married. No one in the family remembers hearing her name :(
I do have a paper that says a Rose Ann Dougan died in Auckland, New Zealand in the 1940's but I don't know who wrote that down for me, or if it is our Rose Ann. The rest of the family stayed firmly at the other end of the island in Petone, so that makes me wonder.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you

This may be her in 1901-

Name: Rose Havern
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relationship: Wife
Spouse's name : James Havern
Gender: Female
Where born: Busby, Renfrewshire
Registration Number: 493
Registration district: Bonhill
Civil parish: Bonhill
County: Dumbartonshire
Address: 12a Milton Terrace
ED: 17
Household schedule number: 18
Line: 10
Roll: CSSCT1901_167
Household Members:
Name Age
James Havern 25
Rose Havern 23
James Havern 1
Lizzie Havern 1

Marriage -
1898 HAVERN JAMES DOUGAN ROSE ANN BONHILL /DUNBARTON


In 1911 census with husband and 7 children

Cannot find a death - may have remarried, but can't find another marriage, may have immigrated, but can't find that. So a bit of sleuthing is needed!


Catherine
Ctherine

It is unlikely that Annie Gadsby was ever divorced if her death registration described her as "widow" of. Also divorce was very expensive and not very common among working class people at that time.