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James & harry & George were all registered in both the name Chapman & Shepherd which indicates that Walter and Sarah were not married at the time of their births

Births Jun 1920 (>99%)
Chapman James Tanswell Worksop 7b 98

Births Mar 1923 (>99%)
CHAPMAN Harry Tanswell Worksop 7b 79

Births Dec 1925 (>99%)
Chapman George Tanswell Rother V. 9b

thanks that confirms the marriage at worksop of walter s and sarh eliz. twere my grandparents and at least 4 of the children WERE illegitimate as my dad jack was born aug 1925 and the age of joyce at death i only got from a relative so she was only 1 when she died then came kathleen . now how can I find the parents of Walter which I'm going to try to do when I come back at 5ish.do I start with births in yorkshire?

you start with the marriage certificate of Walter & Sarah

with a name like Shepherd you could easily go down the wrong track so need his age & occupation on marriage and his father's name and occupation

there is nothing that can be found on-line to give Walter's age at the time of his marriage and you have no idea where he was born

thanks lancashire ann there are no certifcates atll but I understand you can buy old copies?.I have his birthc1878 which makes him 22 when he married clara claxton and 49 when he married sarh elizabeth the only other thing I know about him is that he had a brother who had a geengrocers business in Rotherham, south yorkshire

Chris - if you want to create an accurate tree you should keep careful records

There were only 3 children born illegitimately - Kathleen (just!) b 1827 & Joyce born after marriage, Joyce was born AFTER Kathleen in 1932

to buy copies of certificates you use the GRO reference on freebmd and order them through the site http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/

cost £9.25 - NEVER pay more than this. Some other sites charge a lot more

I can't believe you have managed to do your maternal side accurately back to 1500 without buying certificates and in such a short time. It takes most of us years to search parish registers and wait for certificates

but you have given me info on james (jim),george and harry all registered in both names then my dad jack was born1925 have got to go now but back 5ish thanks for ALL your help chris

but you have given me info on james (jim),george and harry all registered in both names then my dad jack was born1925 have got to go now but back 5ish thanks for ALL your help chris

those 3 were quite easy with the unusual circumstances

Walter Shepherd is a different proposition - at least with the info you have given us so far

Where did you get his age / birth year from please?

Have you decided you dad was George but called Jack for some reason?

It is physically impossible for them both to have been born in the consecutive qtrs of 1925

I wonder if you're using a family tree computer program, Christine? It's just that you seem to be so confused, giving us a maiden name for Sarah Elizabeth when it was actually her mother's maiden name.
Now you say you have Walter's birth as 1878 but don't all the censuses show him born later than that?
Like Lancashire Ann I'm amazed that you got back to the 1500's on your maternal side, especially if you're not using a family tree program and not buying certificates.

that Walter / Clara marriage was only a guess going on the date you gave. But there are other Walter Shepherd marriages in the same area which just as easily be the one without knowing what his wife's actual name was.

I can't find a death for a Clara Shepherd which looks likely in the time scale.

just to try and clear up another point for you

"I have seen some info about Landford Brigg and i,ve just looked at the atlas and that;s in norfolk."

Not sure where you found it. Are you sure you are not confusing it with Glandford Brigg which is N Lincolnshire or S. Humberside.

I have seen Glanford Brigg somehere in my travels round this thread

This marriage is also a possibility for Walter as I think Woodhouse comes under Handsworth which is Sheffield reg district

Marriages Sep 1897 (>99%)
Ashley Eleanor Sheffield 9c 807 Scan available - click to view
DENTON Arthur Sheffield 9c 807 Scan available - click to view
DICKINSON Florence Sheffield 9c 807 Scan available - click to view
SHEPHERD Walter Sheffield 9c 807 Scan available - click to view

but still only guesswork

got him!!

family memories are notoriously unreliable when it comes to years of birth

Births Sep 1924 (>99%)
Shepherd Jack Tamswell Rother V. 9c see D40

registered at the same time as brother George in Dec 1940 - plain as day on the image - same ref no as George

1924 mmn mistranscribed from poor handwritten entry

so that does make the 4th illegitimate child

hiya i'm back and I see you,ve all been busy in my absence. Firstly I'm waiting for a phone call from my aunty May for confirmation of uncle george' birth date - he is a seperate body to my dad who is a jack as \i see you have found and wa sborn aug 1925(according to my mother) george was born oct and the year will prob. be 19224 - will confirm when i get phone call. I, m so sorry for confusing you all - the shepherd family is so difficult to get started on as there are no certificates found (as yet and theres only my mum and aunt may left who are both in their 80s and have terrible memories! The maternal side was much much easier as my mum had several certificates and newspaper clippings so had a good start then found all the rest with matches and people allowing me to look at their trees - I'm still getting e-mails from people on that side. It's these shepherds and chapmans! As you can see I am new to this genealogy and am still getting used to the site and have only had to spend £10 subs. to gr so far but I guess the paternal side is going to cost me a fortune! here goes 2 phone calls later george born 24 Doe Quarry lane,Dinnington,Sheffield 16.10.1925¬ a phone call to my mum who still swears my dad is only 2 yrs older than her but then she says she can't remember -SO I THINk jack had to be born 1924 I swear I'll get there eventually. How do you people put up with folk like me???

now I see you have found a recording of george born dec!! the info i've just posted was off his birth certificate aunt may has suddenly found! which tells the address of child but mother's (sarah elizabeth shepherd formerly chapman - formerly tanswell) as living at 35 western avenue ,Dinnington

I think the shepherd's of woodhouse will be connected somehow may be brothers of walter. I know he had one in rotherham which is the next town to sheffield and woodhouse is only a few miles from dinnington sorry would love to stay on this but having to go out again I'll get back on this again soon thanks a million. ps I KNOW for a FACT my dad was born aug not sept my brother and I were sep. birthdays

When it says Sept on the birth reg it means born in the Sept qtr ie in July August or September. Similarly George was born Dec qtr so actually born in Oct Nov or Dec 1925

Births Sep 1924 (>99%)
Shepherd Jack Tamswell Rother V. 9c see D40

the 'see D40' (more usually written D'40) it means he was born in Jul/Aug/Sep 1924 but his birth was a only registered in the December qtr of 1940 and a handwritten note was added to the indexes for 1924 noting the fact. Possibly his mother needed to provide a birth certificate to claim his ration book.

At least that birth cert for your Uncle George proves that you have the right people for his parents and therefore for you father's

I would guess the diference in the addresses is that possibly Doe Lane was the address of a nursing home where he was born and the Western Ave one was the home address.

Without getting it out I think my own birth cert is similar.

Dear lancashireAnn and madbull,1st re last post doe Quarry Terrrace is just an ordinary colliery terrace built when Dinnington pit was sunk early1900s.I can only think sarah went to a relatives to have the baby with there being so many kids at home
2ndly I have found the Chapmans Charles parents were James Chapman4.12.1845 and A 1852nn Smith from Barton-on-humber. I have got back to his ggg grandparents, Gervase(jarvis) Chapman 18.11.1695 from Wooton married Ann King Wooton 1695 married Healing4.6.1724.
Again I was kindly helped by another Gr subscriber. Alas I still cannot find Walter Shepherd. I tried to request a marriage cert. from Hull bmd but they wanted £74.95!!!!!!!!!!!!! that I cannot afford. best regards chris shepherd