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My ancestor Samuel Ball above appears in both the 1881 and 1891 census`s. In 1881 he is shown as living in Parr, St.Helens and quotes his birthplace as Delamere,Cheshire ,whilst in 1991 he is living in Haydock, St.Helens with a birthplace of Laysley, Chester. The 1881 census gives an age of 48 and 1891 census an age of 58.

However I have hit a brick wall in establishing for certain who his parents were. From his wedding certificate I know his father was also called Samuel but I do not know who is mother was.

Can anyone help me to take my family tree back a further generation.

Census ages are more useful as years of birth: 1833 (if age was accurate, more likely 1832).

Name: Samuel Ball
Spouse: Elizabeth Ball
Birth: abt 1833 - Laysley, Cheshire, England
Residence: 1891 - Haydock, Haydock, Lancashire, England

Name: Samuel Ball
Spouse: Elisabeth Ball
Birth: abt 1833 - Delamere, Cheshire, England
Residence: 1881 - Parr, Lancashire, England
occupation labourer


for ref

Delamere and Davenham are about 5 miles apart near Norwich -- oops, I meant Northwich. Do you know where Laysley is? I don't. ;)


Name: Samuel Ball
Birth: abt 1834 - Davenham, Cheshire, England
Residence: 1861 - Over, Cheshire, England

Name: Samuel Ball
Birth: abt 1835 - Davenham, Cheshire, England
Residence: 1871 - Over, Over, Cheshire, England

Name: Samuel Ball
Birth: abt 1833 - Wharton, Cheshire, England
Residence: 1851 - Over, Cheshire, England

?

In each year, that Samuel is with a brother Richard.


>>> No, rule that one out, but I'll leave him here to show he's ruled out.
In 1881 he is still in Over with brother Richard.

poss



SAMUEL BALL
Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
29 MAR 1832 St Marys On The Hill, Chester, Cheshire, England
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: SAMUEL BALL
Family
Mother: JANE

What was father Samuel's occupation on the marriage certificate?
Who were the witnesses?

This one's father was a weaver in 1841:

Saml Ball 48
Mary Ball 23
Ann Ball 13
Saml Ball 11
Beshial Ball 3

Civil parish: Prestbury
County/Island: Cheshire
Registration district: Macclesfield

same family ?
1871 England Census about Samuel Baldwin
Name: Samuel Baldwin
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Samuel Baldwin
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Baldwin
Gender: Male
Where born: Parr, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Parr
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Town: St Helen
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Household schedule number: 158
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Baldwin 38
Elizabeth Baldwin 32
John Baldwin 15
Samuel Baldwin 13
Thomas Baldwin 10
Elizabeth Baldwin 5
James Baldwin 2
Frederic Baldwin 3 Months

Samuel Balls father Samuel is shown as a brick maker.
The winesses were Thomas Scollan and Ann Rimmer.

theres this one.
samuel ball , 1833
1841 census.
samuel 40 brickmaker,
amelia 35,
william 13,
samuel 8,
john 2,
district boughton, great, the castle.
parish christleton.
cheshire

Just to note that Vera's Samuel Ball in Over in 1841 is the one I ruled out earlier:

BALL, Richard M 11 1830 Cheshire
BALL, Samul M 9 1832 Cheshire


Alan's in 1841 is looking good.

Thanks JaneyC will delete....otherwise it will confuse.

Regards Vera

Alan, this is looking good. Where did you obtain this record Regards

From records shown in the 1841 census can you advise how I would find the birth certificate. This may show whether the birth was in Delamere or this unknown place Laysley near Chester.

hi ian,
believe it or not, (no not ancestry), here on genes.!
i typed in , samuel ball 1841 census, born 1833,
give or take one year, cheshire.

Hi Ian, please do reply in the thread, private messages are just a pain. ;)

"Thanks Janey. Could you advise as to how I can trace Alans record from 1841 census back to possible birth records? Regards"

Parish records are the only source for baptisms before 1837 (and some after, if births not registered).

Some sources are:

http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html
http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/igi/search_igi.asp

and I think there's a Cheshire-specific BMD site ... no, only for post-1837:
http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi?county=cheshire

No matter what you found it would be a bit of a guessing game. A Samuel Ball of the right age with a father with the right name and occupation -- but it's always possible there was more than one with the same details!

If you want to go with the assumption that the one in 1841 is the right one, you might find a birth registration for the youngest child, born after 1837, that would give the mother's full name.

Here's how Ancestry has them in 1841!

Name: Samuel Bull
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Where born: Cheshire, England

Civil parish: Christleton
County/Island: Cheshire
Registration district: Great Boughton

Samuel Bull 40 brick maker born in county
Samuel Bull 8
William Bull 13
John Bull 2
Amelia Bull 35


Comparing the letters in Bull and Samuel, I'd read it as Ball.

Delamere is about 6 miles ENE of Christleton?

No John Bulls were born in Cheshire mid-1837 to 1840, but there was a John Ball in Stockport in 1838 and there were three more in 1840.

I think this confirms the surname:

Deaths Mar 1847
Ball Amelia Gt Boughton 19 27

and possibly one of

Deaths Dec 1844
BALL Samuel Great Boughton 19 23
Deaths Mar 1846
BALL Samuel Great Boughton 19 26

since I can't see either of them in 1851.

I wonder if Laysley is an interpretation of Disley which is in reg district Stockport

lansAnn -- I kept meaning to check the actual image. ;)

... it's _aysley. Not sure about the "L" at the beginning. Actually, comparing to the T in a Thomas on the page, I'd say it's Taysley. That's no good either, but does it bring anything to mind?

it certainly does look more like the T in Thomas




but you know, I lived in that area for a couple of years in the mid-60s, and there are lots of little tiny villages, some consisting only of a farm and a couple of houses.


It could well be one of those!




sylvia

The marriage certificate in 1855 of Samuel Ball (born 1832/33) states that his father was a brickmaker. Does that mean his father was alive in 1855. Would it have stated he was deceased if he had died before the wedding?