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Any miracle workers out there?

Michael Jordan died 1918. He was a sto.1st (stoker?) in submarine K.5 and navy notice was RN2128.

I am trying to find if he is a relative but the information I have is rather sketchy. His parents or grandparents were F C Jordan and Kate (formerly Pearce) who was born in 1850, who ran the Red Lion at Rotherhide Surry docks (date unknown)

This is based on the memor of elderly relatives of Kate Pearce and some old photos they have so don't know if it is accurate.

Is there anywhere I can find information on Michael? I have tried the 1911 census but it is inconclusive.

Many thanks

Liz
Australia

CWGC says this:

Name: JORDAN, MICHAEL
Initials: M
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Stoker 1st Class
Regiment/Service: Royal Navy
Unit Text: H.M. S/M. "K5."
Age: 27
Date of Death: 31/07/1918
Service No: K/22252
Additional information: Son of James and Anne Jordan, of 9, Clarence St., Kingstown, Co. Dublin.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: 28.
Memorial: PLYMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL

Parents are different.

Rose

Hi Rose

Many thanks for the quick reply. Doesn't seem to tie up with the parents so will have to think again.

I know he was in a submarine which went down, just not sure of his name,

Very many thanks again.

Liz

Have you found a Kate Jordan on any census?

Rose

No marriage on FreeBMD for a F Jordan to a Pearce.

Can you tell me more about Kate?

Rose

Hi Rose

Sorry, I've led you astray. Relooking at my info it was Kate's father who was born in 1850 and Kate was born 1881 in Chesham. Therefore her son could have died in WW2 in a submarine.

I'll have to start again with the new dates.

Sorry for the muddle - different generations with the same names.

Again, my apologies.

Best wishes


Liz

Have you searched for Kates born in Chesham c1881 on the 1911 census?

Rose

Hi Rose

Can't find her under Kate, Katherine or Catherine, either Jordan or Pearce.

I have her in 1881 census with parents Charles and Catherine and am looking at other census records.

Can't find her marriage to a Jordan and don't know the name of her son!

These things are sent to try us.

best wishes

Liz

I have found Kate in 1911 as a boarder, staying with the Rutland family. She was single and 30 years old.

1901 she was with her family but called "Pearse" instead of Pearce.

Now to find her marriage and child!

Liz

There's a Kate Pearce marrying a Smith in 1914.

Rose

I have to tie her in with a Jordan or the info from the 90+ year old ladies is incorrect. I haven't been able to find a Red Lion in Rotherhide and looking at the WW2 information on the navy memorial I haven't found anyone who would tie up with the info I've been given. There was a Charles Frederick Jordan who died 1942 but there didn't seem any information on him. The name seemed to tie up with the name of the person Kate married - I thought perhaps her son had a similar name as his father.

Will press on!

Liz

I'd been poking around at this as well but there were too many holes to fill.

Where does the name Jordan come from in the first place? Did she have a child with the surname Jordan that you definitley know about?

I had noted the Kate PearSe in 1901 -- presumably you know the person who submitted that correction in 2008 and are in touch with them? (The correction doesn't actually say whether/how they're related! I wish people would do that!)

Hi Janey

The information I have comes from a lady who had the story from her elderley aunts. We both have the name of Kate Pearce in our trees. The aunts said that Kate was married to a C F or F C Jordan and that they had one son who was killed in a submarine during the war. Kate and her husband had a pub called The Red Lion, Rotherhide Docks Surrey.

I have several Jordans in my tree, including several Charles and Fredericks and have been trying to tie them all together. Perhaps my Jordan side is not related at all.

The possibility is that her child was a Pearce as she was still single in 1911 - hard to do a jigsaw when most of the pieces are missing!

Liz

There's a Red Lion put in Rotherhithe in 1881 (searchable by address at Ancestry, the only year it is).

Address 198 Deptford Lower Rd, head of household a licensed victualler named George Wilton (someone has corrected the name from Wetton at Ancestry). Likely a little too out of date.

Yes, there are way too many pieces of this puzzle missing, I'd say!

Kate Pearce was in Hendon reg dist in 1901. I had thought this marriage possibly interesting:

Marriages Jun 1901
Garrad Arthur Hendon 3a 432
Hobden Henry James Hendon 3a 432
> PEARCE Kate Hendon 3a 432
SUTTON Louisa Frances Hendon 3a 432

I can't find a Kate Garrad with an Arthur or a Kate Hobden with a Henry in 1911. Or births with either name combo in a time and place to match after 1910.


But look what I did just find.

Marriages Jun 1911
Cownty Alfred D Southwark 1d 257
> Garrad Kate Southwark 1d 257
Hopkins Ethel Southwark 1d 257
> Jordan Frederick C Southwark 1d 257


Ask, and ye shall receive!!

We're short of births to go with that marriage though. There are births in Ludlow, Wirral and Blaby, but not until 1920 in Holborn which seems a more likely location. No Michael (but that was a guess anyway?). A John and an Irene. No John Jordan died in WWII.

Thanks Janey - didn't think of the possibility of Kate marrying before. Now was the son in the submarine a Pearce, Jordan or Garrad?!

Something with this game - it can be very interesting or very frustrating!

Very many thanks for your detective work.

Best wishes

Liz

The aunts remember them having a son but at that distance in time it is quite possible that Kate had a baby before marrying Frederick Jordan and he was brought up by Frederick. What a pity we don't have a 1921 census!

Best wishes

Liz

I took a poke at looking for Garrad children, but that's a bit of a hopeless undertaking, I fear.

The 1921 census will tell all, for sure! We hope. ;)

Thanks Janey for all your help.

Liz

From details on her first marriage cert - this is Kate on 1891:

1891 England Census
about Kate Pearce Name: Kate Pearce
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Charle Pearce
Mother's Name: Catherine Pearce
Gender: Female
Where born: Chesham, Buckinghamshire,** England

Civil parish: Willesden
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England



Registration district: Hendon
Sub-registration district: Willesden
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Charle Pearce 35 Shoemaker
Catherine Pearce 34
Frederick Pearce 16
George Pearce 14
Gertrude Pearce 12
Kate Pearce 10 ***
Charles Pearce 7
Edith Pearce 5
Ethel Pearce 2


at 10 Chelsford St.

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1044; Folio 21; Page 44; GSU roll: 6096154.



///////////

I think this may be her on 1911?? - If it is, she has had 2 children and both were still alive !!!

GARRETT, Kate Servant Widow F 30 1881 Fishmaid Club Bucks Cheddington


Reference:
RG14PN417 RD5 SD1 ED3 SN29

Registration District:
St George Sub District:
Mayfair and Knights Bridge Enumeration District:
3 Parish:
St George Hanover Square

Address:

Devonshire Club
50 St James ST
County: London

It was a 'huge' establishment - pages of other servants and Club members etc!! - I have not put them all on here as not connected but it is interesting to see what they all do !

I will see if I can find anything to confirm this.....


Dea x