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Ok thanks Astra.

Yes there was a William James Grant baptised on 24th June in Portsea Hampshire parents William Grant and Ann James It is also the date of the submitted baptism for William Grant in Kennington parents Thomas and Sarah which was posted here earlier.
It's not a problem William not being in the census with his family in 1841. He would have been 14 and more than likely working away from home. And there is a William Grant age 12 working in Kennington in the 1841. The problem is that Thomas and Sarah do not appear to have had a son called William baptised anywhere.
Will see if there is any link through the witnesses although thus far I have failed to find one.

I've just looked at a relatives tree, who has listed Thomas' birth place as Portsmouth, but I have no idea where the source of that information came from. Oh dear, I don't know if I'm making things easier or worse! LOL

Marriage certificate is dated 14 Oct 1850 Chilham parish - East Ashford.
Witnesses were James Coleman and Anne Biddle. Mary's father was Thomas Smith, so I think you have found the right family in 1841 - at least its a good match.
I have been passed the info that William was baptised 24 June 1827 - Ashford, but I don't know if this is correct as I haven't found the details myself. Would that explain why it's not with the others in Kennington? A move perhaps? Will this record be accessible online?
I have a copy of the birth and marriage of Lewis Grant, which both list William as father and Mary formerly Smith as mother.
Is this enough information to pin down Thomas and Sarah? What is worrying me, is assuming William belonged to Thomas and Sarah, who remarried Frances as I've been led to believe, where is William in the census records? Why would he be the only one missing?
Thanks for your help once again Astra.

The problem is that so far we have 3 marriages of Mary Smith to William Grant and proving which one is correct is going to be a problem as there does not appear to be baptism for William to confirm who his father was. What is the date of the marriage that your relatives have the certificate for and what were the names of the witnesses?
What we do know is that Mary says she was born in Godmersham. We know that there was a child called Frances who was possibly born before they married. We also know that William was born in Kennington/Ashford. I put those bits of information together and came up with the above scenario. It may or may not be correct. But it does match to a certain extent with what we know to be correct. It is also very easy to piece information together to make it match so it could just as easily be wrong. Do the birth certificates of any of William and Mary's children confirm that her name was Smith?

The other oddity is that the children of Thomas and Sarah were all baptised in Kennington. There are records for Thomas, Richard and Henry but nothing for William. Why?

Sorry if this appears more than once, but it isn't showing up for me, so I'm posting again............
Hi Astra - Thanks for picking up the case. I am a bit confused now. According to William's marriage certificate to Mary Ann Smith his father was Thomas Grant. I have then been passed the information that Thomas first married Sarah, who was mother to Thomas (1824), Henry (1830), Richard (1831) and my William (1827). Sarah apparently died 1833 and Thomas remarried Frances in 1837 and had George (1838), Amelia Emily (1840), Rachel (1842) and Frederick (1844). As I haven't actually seen the documentation to support this, I am now wondering if there is a mistake. Where is William in the census data? I don't know where to go from here - any suggestions? I have tried searching peoples trees, but none of them have as yet matched with my Thomas and William Grant.

Hi Astra - Thanks for picking up the case. I am a bit confused now. According to William's marriage certificate to Mary Ann Smith his father was Thomas Grant. I have then been passed the information that Thomas first married Sarah, who was mother to Thomas (1824), Henry (1830), Richard (1831) and my William (1827). Sarah apparently died 1833 and Thomas remarried Frances in 1837 and had George (1838), Amelia Emily (1840), Rachel (1842) and Frederick (1844). As I haven't actually seen the documentation to support this, I am now wondering if there is a mistake. Where is William in the census data? I don't know where to go from here - any suggestions? I have tried searching peoples trees, but none of them have as yet matched with my Thomas and William Grant.

And baptism for Frances

residence: Kent, England
parents: Mary Smith

record title: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
name: Frances Smith
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 01 Apr 1849
baptism/christening place: Godmersham, Kent, England
mother's name: Mary Smith
indexing project (batch) number: I00908-0
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1850190

This could be Mary in 1841

Mary Smith
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Gender: Female
Where born: Kent, England
Civil Parish: Godmersham
Hundred: Felborough
County/Island: Kent
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Smith 40
Sarah Smith 50
James Smith 14
William Smith 12
Mary Smith 10

And there is another marriage for William Grant to Mary Smith in 1849 in Crundale which is not too far from Ashford and Godmersham where Mary says she was born

Mary Smith
marriage: 03 Jun 1849 — Crundale, Kent, England
record title: England Marriages, 1538–1973
groom's name: William Grant
bride's name: Mary Smith
marriage date: 03 Jun 1849
marriage place: Crundale, Kent, England
indexing project (batch) number: I00959-6
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1850188

William born 1852 was Baptised William Thomas which gives us the link back to William Senior's father maybe!

Name: William Thomas Grant
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 27 Jul 1851
Baptism/Christening Place: Oare, Kent, England
Father's Name: William Grant
Mother's Name: Mary
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I00536-7
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1835535
Reference Number: item 4 p 39

On the IGI there is an extracted baptism record for Louisa and several submitted records for some of the others that people have added but nothing for William with father Thomas.

This is William's death

Deaths Dec 1889 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Grant William 62 E. Ashford 2a 440

Frances Grant
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1812
Gender: Female
Where born: Kent, England
Civil Parish: Kennington
Hundred: Lathe of Scray Chart and Longbridge
County/Island: Kent
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Grant 40
Frances Grant 29
Henry Grant 12
Richard Grant 8
George Grant 3
Emma Grant 1


1851

Thomas Grant
Age: 65
Estimated birth year: abt 1786
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Frances Grant
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Portsmouth, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Ashford
County/Island: Kent
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Grant 65 >>>>>Labourer
Frances Grant 40
Henry Grant 21
Richard Grant 19
George Grant 13
Emma Grant 11
Rachel Grant 9
Frederick Grant 6
Louisa Grant 4

Ok, now I'm really confused :9( I've just been informed that Sarah died and was buried 1833 and Thomas remarried Frances Epps. So I presume the Sarah Grant and son William in 1841 must be someone else. Back to the drawing board I suppose. I now need to find a marriage around 1837. Trouble is unless someone can help me out, it will unfortunately have to wait, because I've now used up all my credits! Thank you for your help with this though Patchem xx

He could still be dead, and just not recorded as such.

Good thinking - I don't think it does. There goes that theory then. So either he was away or seperated?

Does it say whether Thomas is deceased on the marriage certificate?

I have managed to find out from a family connection about the marriage of William and Mary, as they have a copy of the marriage certificate. Thomas is named as the father and Thomas Smith is named as Mary's father. However, I just can not seem to trace him in the census records. I have however found a William living with his mother Sarah in Lambeth Kennington in 1841 census. There was no mention of Thomas. Could this mean he was away or dead by then? If he was dead, then maybe that's why I can't trace him anywhere. Can anyone help out here please?

Thank you!

Get certs online from url below for £9.25. Takes about a week. Other sites can charge a lot more, so use this official site.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

Yes, 5 5 was vol and page no.