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Hi Patchem Not sure if already sent this but thanks again for your help

Please could you advise on Daniel Jones's marriage to Sarah Kersley ( one of their children is Albert Jones who is my grt,grt grt grandfather ) I want to find out where and when they were married, all I can find is 1883 marriage register Daniel in Manchester ( 8d 205 ) do I need to buy the marriage certificate first to see if this is correct

You know they married each other because you have Albert's birth certificate?

For the record you're looking at, you click on the page number (205) to see the other names in the list.

Marriages Mar 1883
HERON Annie Manchester 8d 205
HERRON Annie Manchester 8d 205 (a corrected transcription)
Jones Daniel Manchester 8d 205
ROSEBURY Ellen Manchester 8d 205
SIDDALL Joseph Manchester 8d 205

No Sarah Kersley, and no missing name.

A search for Daniel Jones marrying Sarah Kersley comes up blank.

Tell us how you know the name Sarah Kersley?

Do you mean this marriage entry (you click on the number to find out who possible spouses are):
Marriages Mar 1883
HERON Annie Manchester 8d 205
HERRON Annie Manchester 8d 205
Jones Daniel Manchester 8d 205
ROSEBURY Ellen Manchester 8d 205
SIDDALL Joseph Manchester 8d 205
so, no Kersley

Added: Snap.

?
1891 England Census
Daniel Jones
Age: 36 Estimated birth year: abt 1855 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Sarah E Jones
Gender: Male Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Manchester Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew Town: Manchester County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England Street address: 12 Raffs Buildings
Occupation: carter Registration district: Manchester Sub-registration district: Central ED, institution, or vessel: 10

Daniel Jones 36
Sarah E Jones 34
David Jones 7
Sarah E Jones 3

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 3237; Folio 46; Page 42; GSU roll: 6098347.

Possibly that is the correct marriage and she is Ellen (Sarah Ellen) and it is her second marriage, with her maiden name showing on the birth certificate.
But they could already be married in 1881, just ages a long way out.

Once again Many Thanks

I had been given Kersley or Kearsley from a relation who did some reasearch a while ago, but I couldn't find anything showing up as you say??

The 1901 cencus is correct with Sarah and Daniel ( Albert is 12 ) but I don't have a birth certificate for Albert, I think I found his birth record (8d 291 ) Albert is my blood line, thanks patchem but 1891 cencus is a different family

So yes, I don't know if Sarah was called Kersley ?/ or if they married, Do I need to send off for Alberts birth certificate to confirm the details?

Albert's birth certificate is definitely the way to go as with a name like Jones (I too have a John Jones in my tree) you can easily end up looking at the wrong line

I think the problem with sending for the birth cert of Albert is identifying which ref to use. The one you quote is in the Mar qtr so he would probably for this one have been 13 when the 1901 census was taken. A birth place quoted os Manchester on a census could mean eg a birth reg in Prestwich or Chorlton districts.

Did Albert have any siblings with a more unusual name?

you say "the 1901 census is correct with Sarah & Daniel". Could you give details please for those of us who do not have access to census records

Marriages Sep 1877
Bertenshaw Elizabeth Ashton 8d 689
Fielding James Ashton 8d 689
> Jones Daniel Ashton 8d 689
> Kearsley Sarah Elizabeth Ashton 8d 689

I guess we were looking too late before. I searched back to 1875, for Daniel Jones marrying Sarah E, and got it.

Of course, only the certificate will confirm it's the right Daniel Jones and Sarah E, for sure!

Searching for Daniel Jones + Sarah Kearsley would also have found it, but of course you had told us her name was Kersley.


And please, would *you* put the 1901 census info here in the form we've been doing for you?

Copy and paste is simple.

Put your mouse cursor at the beginning of what you want to copy,
hold the left button down,
drag the cursor to the end of what you want to copy (it will all turn blue),
let the left mouse button up,
click the right mouse button and you get a menu,
click on Copy.

Then go to the post box on this page,
click in the box,
then click the right mouse button and you get a menu,
click on Paste.

It sounds complicated, but once you've done it twice, it's second nature.

This certainly looks like them in 1881:


Name: Daniel Jones
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah Elizabeth Jones
> Where born: Seacombe, Cheshire, England
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Gen Lab

Civil Parish: Garston
County/Island: Lancashire
Street address: 5 Window Lane
Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Wavertree

Daniel Jones 27
Sarah Elizabeth Jones 24
Emily Jones 2
Danl. Ernest Jones 6 mo


Births Dec 1880
Jones Daniel Ernest West Derby 8b 609


edit - no - that is this household in 1891 in Openshaw, Manchester, Lancashire:

Daniel Jones 35 - born Seabury(?), Cheshire, blacksmith's stoker
Sarah E Jones 32
Emily Jones 12
Daniel E Jones 10
Water Jones 6
Lebbe Jones 4
Albert Jones 2 - born Openshaw, Lancashire

... but hold on, there's an Albert ... but this is the same household in 1901 in Ardwick, South Manchester:

Daniel Jones 46 - born Openshaw, Lancashire, blacksmith's stoker
Sarah Jones 44
Daniel E Jones 20
Lily Jones 14
> Albert Jones 12 - born Openshaw, Lancashire
Herbert Jones 10
Maud Jones 8
Betha Jones 4
Clara Jones 1


It sure would help to know *what* household you're talking about in 1901.


Actually, that's the only one in 1901 with a 12-yr-old Albert son of Daniel and Sarah. Is that it??

This is very possibly Daniel's birth:

Births Mar 1855
Jones Daniel Wirral 8a 385

-- the reg dist Wirral includes Poulton cum Seacombe

from Cheshirebmd (I only looked from 1881 before as well)

Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1876 to 1880
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
JONES Daniel KEARSLEY Sarah Elizabeth Droylsden, St Mary Tameside CE11/2/261

Droylsden could possibly be counted as Manchester????

Births Sep 1888 (>99%)
JONES Albert Chorlton 8c 769

Births Dec 1888 (>99%)
JONES Albert Chorlton 8c 727

Chorlton is the reg district for Openshaw

Ah, Cheshire BMD!
http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk

Cheshire Birth indexes for the years: 1854
(born late 1854, registered early 1855)
JONES Daniel Wallasey Wirral WAL/8/54

But no parent info. :(

Thanks Janey & everyone

1901 cencus

Daniel Jones 46 - born Openshaw, Lancashire, blacksmith's stoker
Sarah Jones 44
Daniel E Jones 20
Lily Jones 14
Albert Jones 12 - born Openshaw, Lancashire
Herbert Jones 10
Maud Jones 8
Betha Jones 4
Clara Jones 1

this is the right family as I can track Albert back to my father

Marriages Sep 1877
Bertenshaw Elizabeth Ashton 8d 689
Fielding James Ashton 8d 689
> Jones Daniel Ashton 8d 689
> Kearsley Sarah Elizabeth Ashton 8d 689

Thanks again Janey, looks like you have it ( Kearsley ) not Kersley. I'll get the marriage cert to check as you say

Were it says Ashton is that Ashton -under-Lyne ???

Yes it is Ashton-under-Lyne -- if you do the search for the marriage, you'll see that "Ashton" is a clickable link, and the page that opens gives a description of the reg dist and info about what localities are covered by it.

We're no closer to finding John and Jane themselves (I know I've checked out every John and Jane Jones in 1851!), I fear, although what Daniel said on his marriage cert about his father could help.

I think I'd really cross my fingers and get that birth cert:

Births Mar 1855
Jones Daniel Wirral 8a 385

Great, Many thanks Janey,,, yep I'll get both cert's and have a crack at John & Jane.. thank you again

If Daniel was born Openshaw, and everything you have posted about him does say born Manchester, Wirral does not seem quite right. But who knows his mother may have been staying with Liverpool relatives when he was born. Stranger things have happened.

But it is also possible that his birth was just never registered as there was no penalty for not doing so in the 1850's.

if that 1861 census that Helen posted is correct Daniel was age 4 ie born 1856/57

this birth would fit

Births Mar 1857 (>99%)
Jones Male Chorlton 8c 491

worth considering if the other does not fit

lancsAnn -- if the 81, 91 and 01 census households I posted are all the same/right family, the 81 says Daniel was born Seacombe and the 91 says he was born Seabury.

Seabury doesn't seem to exist, but Seacombe is in Wirral, I think.

And 1857 is later than all 3 of those censuses suggest.

I know it's not *always* true, but "Male" usually indicates an infant who died directly after birth before being named.

Deaths Mar 1857
Jones Male Chorlton 8c 33[47]
Jones Male Chorlton 8c 367
(not sure whether they're different ones, or a corrected entry)

There should be a facility for placing bets here!

sorry Janey - I didn't study that 1881 of yours well enough. Birth in Seacombe (it is 'over the Mersey') does fit with living in West Derby

I do tend to look for a reg of 'male' as it took me a long time to find my own gt grandfather's birth. He was registered as 'male' on the same day as he was born.

the age 4 one I took from the 1861 (Helen's post - no 6 on p1)