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sorry, just seen it, i think i need to go to bed and look at it again in the morning, mind is playing tricks on me!

I'm still seeing it there -- I think you just got sent back to page 1 when you deleted. Look up ^^^ -- the death details for John and Audrey. I didn't find anything else (the birth of the son, but you have that).

Ann o' GG got here before me -- I wasn't meaning to delete your whole post, just the personal bits. For that, use the "Edit" link and just delete the parts you want to remove, and click Submit.

I lost the last post from you janey, when you have a minute could you send me the details of John and Audrey. As I have noticed that John died in my home town!!!

Thanks
Faye

you'll see three options above your posting - Requst review/edit/delete - just click on delete and it will disappear!!

If you could pm me I would be very grateful

Many thanks for your help!

ah ok, im sorry my fault how do i delete my message so i dont offend?
Faye

Faye, you shouldn't put personal details about living people (children of Sydney) on the boards here, so you should delete them now.

Name: John Sydney Mendes
Birth Date: 2 Nov 1924
Death Registration Month/Year: Oct 2005
Age at death (estimated): 80
Registration district: Sudbury
Inferred County: Essex, Suffolk
Register number: 24F
District and Subdistrict: 752/1
Entry number: 295

Name: Audrey Olivia Mendes
Birth Date: 23 Dec 1916
Death Registration Month/Year: Mar 1993
Age at death (estimated): 76
Registration district: Maidstone
Inferred County: Kent
Register number: B57C
District and Subdistrict: 5691B
Entry number: 75


The son is on the current electoral roll; if you want contact details, go to Tracey's thread

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/trying_to_find/any/thread/1231191

and *send her a private message* asking for a lookup.

The daughter is on the electoral roll for 2002 with her husband. I can give you the name details privately if you like.

Otherwise, I'm sorry, but to find details about the family of the mother of living people, the appropriate thing to do is really to ask those people, rather than discuss them here.

Someone has the daughter's name (a slightly incorrect birthdate) in their tree here at GR.

I promise I'll never do Smith or Jones!!!

I dread the day you decide to do some lookups for surname Smith, Ann o' GG.

Of course there were stacks more! And of course I saw them too. I was looking for ones that might actually relate to this family. It wasn't a hugely uncommon surname in India at the time. They may all be related somehow, but unless we know how ...

there were stacks more but I thought to myself - Janey will have a go at me if I post more!!!!

Just because I believe in collecting names that might be useful for confirming or denying an hypothesis -- moe children of John Mendes and Virginia Derozario (parents of Frank 1855):

Joseph Francis Mendes
Birth: 24 JUL 1868 Chinsura, West Bengal, India
Christening: 03 JAN 1869
Father: John Mendes
Mother: Virginia
Batch No.: C750217

Eleanor Florence Mendes
Birth: 18 NOV 1862 India Office Ecclesiastical Returns-Bengal Presidency,,Misc, , , India
Father: John Mendes
Mother: Virginia
Batch No.: C750187


and submitted ones:

Archibald Mendes P
Birth: 22 MAR 1848 Chinsura, West Bengal, India
Father: John Mendes
Mother: Virginia

OLIVIA MENDES
Birth: 19 FEB 1853 Chinsura, West Bengal, India
Father: JOHN MENDES
Mother: VIRGINIA


btw, you do know that someone here at GR has ... hm, having realized that the person is living, I'm not comfortable discussing him now ... the person born 1922 in India, in their tree? I still think that generations removed might be happy with contact.

And you don't seem to have any of your family in a tree here at GR. I'd certainly get that done, so anyone who searches for the people will find you.


Oh, oops, Ann o' GG was beating me to it. I'll leave this as it indicates the sources of the info.

But Ann, you've included random Mendes-s who could only be peripherally related at best ...

Olivia Mendes

India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947
birth: 19 Feb 1853
residence: Bengal, India
parents: John Mendes, Virginia



Emelia Catherine Albert Mendes

India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947
birth: 21 Aug 1854 — CHR. CALCUTTA BENGAL INDIA
residence: Bengal, India
parents: Francis Mendes, Mariann



Frank Mendes

India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947
birth: 22 Jul 1855
residence: Bengal, India
parents: John Mendes, Virginia



John Alexander Henry Mendes

India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947
birth: 26 Jan 1859
residence: Bengal, India
parents: John Mendes, Virginia



Eleanor Florence Mendes

India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947
birth: 18 Nov 1862 — Chinsurah, Bengal, India
residence: Bengal, India
parents: John Mendes, Virginia



Joseph Francis Mendes

India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947
birth: 24 Jul 1868 — Chinsurah, Bengal, India
residence: Bengal, India
parents: John Mendes, Virginia



Robert John Mendes

India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947
birth: 15 Nov 1874 — Calcutta, Bengal, India
residence: Bengal, India
parents: Henry Mendes, Mary



Hilda Mary Mendes

India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947
birth: 07 Jan 1882
residence: Bengal, India
parents: John Augustus Mendes, Wilhelmina



Winifred Mary Mendes

India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947
birth: 30 Jan 1882
residence: Bengal, India
parents: Manuel Albert Mendes, Priscilla Elmira



Walter Clement Mendes

India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947
birth: 16 Apr 1888
residence: Bengal, India
parents: William Mendes, Stella



Arthur Joseph Mendes

India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947
birth: 27 Nov 1888
residence: Bengal, India
parents: Joseph Manuel Mendes, Florence Grace Mary



Stanislas Albert Mendes

India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947
birth: 28 Aug 1889 — Calcutta, Bengal, India
residence: Bengal, India
parents: Thomas Mendes, Olivia

Yikes, an open-ended question, that I'm not sure what it refers to. Whose certificate -- the choices being? What people and what certificates?

I would tend to think the John & Louisa marriage certificate is most likely to be the best source of info about him -- unless he fabricated his info (age and father's name), as people certainly did. For instance, maybe he really was much older than Louisa, so he gave himself a younger age.

That 1855 Frank Mendes birth is interesting. Father's name was John, so logical that son would be John. Age matches well with a child born c1877, one possible DOB for John, from his marriage and possibly the 1929 death. It would certainly be nice if it were him, since his parents' marriage info is then available. All the events were in Bengal, so they're reasonable possibles.

Without Frank's own marriage, at least, and John's birth, we're still left surmising and hypothesizing, though.

It would be interesting to know what details might be available for the 1929 death -- an occupation and perhaps wife's name or other family member's name. I know nothing about what info can be had about events in India, but you do?

Oh my, there are so many unanswered questions, baring in mind there is no definite link to one person.

In answer to your questions Janey,
1. The name Frank Mendes came from my family bible which was updated up until my dads birth.
2. John and Louisa's information was again from the family bible, I have never been able to find certificates as I never know where to look.
3. With regards to Hector, as my grandfather remarried after my grandmother died he was isolated from the family, so that is my main reasoning for not contacting him.
4. I must admit the date provided for my grandparents marriage was incorrect in the bible, but now I have the certificate i know the correct date. The others for my uncles, my father and my great uncles appear to match the records on the internet so I thought that the marriage was a one-off mistake (my fault to think that!)

With this in mind, whos certificate do you think I should obtain first?

Thanks

Faye

From pilot.familysearch -- the death adopted by various sources, but there being no apparent solid basis for choosing that death:

Name: John Mendes
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 20 Apr 1935
Burial Place: Lahore, Bengal, India
Death Date: 19 Apr 1935
Death Place: Lahore, Bengal, India
Age: 64 (one family tree says the death record states 67 - ?)
Birth Date: 1871
Marital Status: Unknown
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B75059-3
System Origin: India-EASy
Source Film Number: 528993
Reference Number:
Collection: India Deaths and Burials, 1719-1948

A death that better matches the age on the marriage record (but can be ruled out for other reasons, like location, maybe?):

Name: John Mendes
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 22 Apr 1929
Burial Place: Calcutta, Bengal, India
Death Date: 21 Apr 1929
Death Place:
Age: 50
Birth Date: 1879
Marital Status: Unknown
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B75056-3
System Origin: India-EASy
Source Film Number: 526440
Reference Number:
Collection: India Deaths and Burials, 1719-1948


An Interesting Frank Mendes birth:

Name: Frank Mendes
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 02 Sep 1855
Baptism/Christening Place: Chinsurah, Bengal, India
Birth Date: 22 Jul 1855
> Father's Name: John Mendes
Mother's Name: Virginia
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C75017-2
System Origin: India-EASy
Source Film Number: 498993
Reference Number: v 88 p 34
Collection: India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947

Of an age to have a child in the late 1870s, but not in 1868 or 1872.

Groom's Name: John Mendes
Bride's Name: Virginia Derozario
Marriage Date: 15 Feb 1847
Marriage Place: Chinsurah, Bengal, India
Groom's Father's Name: John Mendes
Bride's Father's Name: M. Derozario
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M75005-3
System Origin: India-EASy
Source Film Number: 498985
Reference Number:
Collection: India Marriages, 1792-1948

Okay, one question answered at pilot.familysearch -- source of John Mendes's father's name:


Groom's Name: John Mendes
Groom's Birth Date: 1877
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age: 30
Bride's Name: Louisa Margaret Condon
Bride's Birth Date: 1885
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age: 22
Marriage Date: 18 Dec 1907
Marriage Place: Mooltan, Bengal, India
> Groom's Father's Name: Frank Mendes
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name: John Condon
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Marital Status: Single
Bride's Marital Status: Single
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M75041-1
System Origin: India-EASy
Source Film Number: 528114
Reference Number:
Collection: India Marriages, 1792-1948

the groom's father's name being as reported by him, of course.

Note age reported by John Mendes: age 30 = dob c1877.

So if the 1935 death was in fact your John Mendes, the age given on his death record -- 67, giving a dob of c1868 -- is wildly different from the age/dob he stated when he married.

tempest's post about the tree on Ancestry -- do you know that tree owner, or is that also someone you don't want to contact because of the family history? One might think that someone who puts a public tree on Ancestry is inviting contacts, though!

That tree
http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/8317382/person/-920073455?ssrc=
has John Mendes as born 1868 (estimated from death report "aged 67") in India. Re the 1935 death of John Mendes, it says:

"India Office Records have this record - of course it may not be the same John Mendes. This has him as aged 67 and a guard on the N.W. Rly. Cec Pearce (neph) says he was much older than his wife & died from condition ff cancer of the tongue."

Another tree
http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/7347206/person/26971436?ssrc=
has Louisa as born 18 Dec 1887 rather than 19 Dec 1884, in India, and also has John Mendes as born abt 1868 India.

So we still have to wonder where your info about John's date and place of birth come from, and also what the source of your info that Louisa was born in Ireland is.

According to the trees at Ancestry, both of Louisa's parents were born in India (with a record to support the info re her father's birth). It's possible that her father was temporarily posted to Ireland if he was in the military, but from the other family info (older and younger siblings apparently born in India, with records for some) that might seem unlikely.

It would be very useful if you'd explain all the sources of your various info.


If John was perhaps born in India, and if there is some basis for Frank being his father's name, have you considered this marriage for his parents?

Entry from Transcription of Marriage Indexes 1709 - 1893
Presidency of Marriage Bombay
Marriage Year 1866
Husband First Names Francis
Husband Surname Mendez
Wife First Names Ann A
Wife Surname Gorin
IOR Reference Z/N/3
Volume Number 40
Folio 199
LDS Film Reference

or possibly

Entry from Transcription of Bengal Marriage Indexes 1857 - 1864
Presidency of Marriage BENGAL
Marriage Year 1856
Husband First Names Francis P
Husband Surname Mendes
Wife First Names Annie A
Wife Surname Gardener
Prefix N1
Source Year 1856
Volume Number 89
Folio 122
LDS Film Reference 498994

Oops, not that one:

Entry from Deaths 1858 Place Lucknow
Year 1857
month May
day 30
Register Entry Murdered at Lucknow on the 30th May Francis Peter Mendes of the Financial Commissioner's Office !!
Edition Year 1858
Edition Date 19 Jan


Frank would have been much less common as a given name in the early-mid 1800s than Francis.


I searched at Fibis for Fran Mende for those results:
http://search.fibis.org/frontis/bin/aps_person_search.php

Faye, what I'm asking is: *how* do you know John's father was called Frank Mendes?

If it's family word of mouth, it may not be accurate at all. My family *knew* my gr-grfather's father was Francis Monck, from my gr-grfather having said so for several decades before and after immigrating here to Canada (and giving that name when he married a second time, in London in 1883). In fact there was no such person, and he was actually a Hill and his father was Francis Hill -- I discovered after months of hard labour with search engines. Long story, oft told here. ;)

People told tales about their parents for many reasons. In my gr-grf's case, it was because he had deserted from the military and taken a false surname (which happened to be a middle name of his younger sister who also adopted it as a surname, so there is still mystery). A more common reason is that the person's parents were not married, so father "John Smith" could be the mother's surname with a stepfather's or the real father's given name, a maternal grandfather or uncle, a total fiction, or one of various other possibilities.

For outsiders to help, it's impotant to know the source of the info you have, so the info can be assessed.

So -- are John's and Louisa's dates of birth, and John's father's name, taken from their marriage record in India, for instance?

Also, might you not consider contacting older living extended family members now? You weren't a party to the old feuds, and they might even be glad to know you.

Hi Faye both trees on ancestry I suggested earlier have

Louisa Margaret Condon Birth 19 Dec 1884 in India Death1969 in Maidstone, Kent, UK.

One says she was widowed in India in 1935 and emigrated with her son Anthony to Douglas St, Maidstone, Kent in 1947.

according to both her parents were; John Condon Birth 4 Dec 1860 in Hydrabad, Maharashtra, India Death 1907 in India, there is a photo of him on both trees

and mother Eliza Rebecca Desmier Birth 31 August c1863 in Multan, Punjab, Pakistan Death 31 August 1939 in Nagpur, Maharashtra, India


whilst the trees may not be completely accurate, they do both seem to have a heck of a lot of information on, for example one of the trees has a lot of extra info/ stories about John Condon and schooling certificates, as well as a lot of family photos.

Hi Janey,

Thank you for your help, my apologies for not providing everything i know.
With regards to Palestine I didnt think it was possible to obtain records from there as i was always informed they do not keep records. I know that my grandfather married my grandmother Pauline Jiaraysie in 1946 at St Josephs Roman Catholic Church in Haifa.

I have never been in contact with Hector, due to major feuds and religious reasons my fathers family were torn apart so I am having to research the tree via the internet.

I now know that John Mendes b 01/01/1872 and Louisa Margaret Condon b 18/12/1887 married on 18/12/1907 in Lahore, but i have no idea how they met as she came from Ireland.

I also know that Johns father was called Frank Mendes but i have no details on him,

Thanks
Faye