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Sandra,

Working on the theory that George was born near to where his siblings were...........have searched Middlesex and London 1901 census 1896+1-1 in both areas..........there seems to be only 1 loose cannon which I will post below. Of course he could be in another County far away, but clutching at straws sometimes pays off!!!!!!


1901 census - household transcription
Person: WEBB, George
Address: 74, Westoe Road, Edmonton

Cost:
You will be charged 5 credits for a transcript and 5 credits for an image, unless you have purchased a subscription for this set of records.


census search results 1901 address search redefine current search
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation
Disability Where Born Original
census
image

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SMITH, Joseph F Head Married M 42 1859 Painters Labourer
Marylebone
London VIEW
SMITH, Eliza Wife Married F 37 1864
Marylebone
London VIEW
SMITH, Eleanor F Daughter F 15 1886 Dressmaker
Marylebone
London VIEW
WEBB, George Nephew M 4 1897 Pianoforte Maker
Marylebone
London VIEW

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RG number:
RG13 Piece:
1264 Folio:
45 Page:
23

Registration District:
Edmonton Sub District:
Edmonton Enumeration District:
22 Ecclesiastical Parish:
All Saints

Civil Parish:
Edmonton Municipal Borough:
Address:
74, Westoe Road, Edmonton County:
Middlesex

Will check the original as see he has a job!!!!!

Checked and he is def aged 4years

Heh, it does indeed say he's 4 yrs old and a pianoforte maker (Mus Inst).

A screw loose somewhere!

I'd guess it's the age is wrong.

Wonder if this is the same George in 1911 Janey. Not sure of the census 1901, it seems very clear that he is 4 and has a job!!!!!!!!! was thinking maybe they had dropped down a line on occupation but for the life of me am unable to see how!!


1911 census - household transcription
Person: WEBB, George
Address: 59 Winchester Road Lower Edmonton

Cost:
You will be charged 10 credits for a transcript and 30 credits for an image, unless you have purchased a subscription for this set of records.


census search results 1911 address search redefine current search
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BREIDENBACK, Walter Head Married M 25 1886 Cook Bermondsey VIEW
BREIDENBACK, Eleanor Fracis Wife Married
4 years F 25 1886 Marylebone VIEW
WEBB, George Nephew Single M 14 1897 Van Guard Marylebone VIEW

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RG number:
RG14 Piece:
7370 Reference:
RG14PN7370 RG78PN357 RD132 SD5 ED20 SN150

Registration District:
Edmonton Sub District:
Edmonton Enumeration District:
20 Parish:
Edmonton

Address:
59 Winchester Road Lower Edmonton County:
Middlesex

Just realised it may be, as ELEANOR is above in 1901 unmarried.

Hi Teresa,

Unable to pin him down at the moment entering Canada, but the George coming in to the UK 1960..........birth July 15th

Annx

janey............year of birth is 1897 not 1891 lol!

Hi everyone thanks for all the hard work. The reason that nothing is known of George is that do any of us as children ask questions of our parents or relatives. I have kept asking the same question of the appropriate relative did you not ask about their past life. No is the answer, but when I think about it my parents talked about their past life and only half of it, the bits I wanted to hear went in. The birth date of George looks good. Not expecting to find a birth certificate, Emily was not good at that so will look to see if she christened him.

I have also found George as nephew and researched this family. Cannot find any of the female members of the family marrying a Webb so with fingers crossed he could be child of one of the sons.

I cannot ask the family about this lady's name you have found as they are on holiday. I had not thought about finding them as visiting in later life. Will check on the addresses in London that you have found. Gets better the more that you have found. Goint to read it all again and try to digest it all. Sorry if some of it is so vague. regards Sandra

Hi again I have found a Manitoba census 1916 there was a George Webb as a lodger with a family called Crump, he was based at Camp Hughes this was a training camp for first world war soldiers, he was 18 years of age and it looks like he was either in Canada from 1913 or that was he naturlisation date, (writing is so tiny for me to read). It looks like he had been serving overseas. I have looked at all the soldiers previously but cannot find one whose mother was Emily, no father. Some do not have paperwork with them.

I have also emailed Hastings archives to see if they know the address in Hastings was a hotel. From Google nowdays it looks like it could have been, it is near the sea front. If you have travelled a long distance as George and parter had done it would be a good base. Not too far from London where one member of the family was still living. The other two females were based in Yorkshire.

I have looked at Georges born 1897 London and there are too many. I have previously paid for a 3 year search for him must look which years were covered.

Have emailed present day family to ask the date of Georges visit and the name Leita rings any bells I so hope it does.

It is good to have some clues to work on, thanks for your help

all the best Sandra

I have heard from Hastings and we have done an investigation into this couple. The person always at the property in Hastings is a Caroline Mitchell, her husband is dead but between them they had several children including a Kathleen Mitchell who married an Albert Pellow in 1917 they shortly after the marriage go to Canada. In 1922 another daughter Letty- not Leita applies to join them to better herself, as she is only a domestic. She must marry a George Webb in Canada and she comes home to see her mother on her own on a few occasions. In 1960 George comes with her.

As our George marries a French Canadian, unfortunately this is not the correct one, it is a pity because we now know all the family history, so if anyone in Hastings has these people in their tree we can supply useful evidence.

Is it possible for someone to have another look at people coming in the country in the 1950s, I know it is a big ask but will look into whatever you find.

regards Sandra

on the other subject of George in England living with the Smiths and Breidenbecks, still looking into this, have looked at the Smith side of the family and it could be that one of the male side is the father but cannot yet find a marriage of the parents so unable to investigate whether the nephew side comes from Eliza Smith side of the family. If you can understand where I am coming from. Why can people not have unusual names in this family to make it easier for me?

Dear Ann, spent sometime looking into the Smith nephew, neglected to check if he was the nephew on the mother's side which he is. She had a sister Sarah Ann who married Ebenezer Arthur Webb in 1893, cannot find them yet in 1901 but on a previous census the father called him Arthur which is more difficult to trace. So unfortunately it looked like another dead end, where of where is our George?

Hi Sandra,

You have been a busy bee! What a shame things did not tie in with your George............it is difficult for me to be of further help as I do not have the "whole" picture, if you see what i mean but I understand your reasons for not posting additional info.

You did mention that the mother was not very good at registering her offspring..........do you have evidence of this, I ask because if you confine the George search (birth) to Middlesex/London around 1896/8 there are only a few possibes.

Annx

The only reason I cannot put everything on is that it is not my family, Blanche Webb was born in Islington workhouse in 1893 the third week of May about 18th. I have previously had terrific help on another quest on this site and a genes member researched every Blanche Webb that was registered that year she eliminated every one. I also know that the next girl's birthday was celebrated 26th September but the mother did not register it until 4th February saying the birth was 29th December. I have read in our local family history magazine that mothers lied on birth certs because they were fined if they had not registered the birth within 42 days. I have a feeling that this was the first birth she ever registered. Her next 2 birtths were registered on time. Maybe she had the oldest 2 christened and thought that was that.

I thought I had found George yesterday in 1901 census
in the Duke of Yorks school, they did send youths abroad when they had educated them. wrote to them and with two emails found out wrong parents so not our George unfortunately.

Spoke to brother in law today, from his memory his uncle George came over from Canada in about 1951sh if that is any help to you. Oh how I wish that the family had asked questions. Never found Blanche in 1901 census but know where she was in 1904 and forever after that..
regards Sandra

good news today, someone who has been helping me for the last six months has finally found him on his return to Britain in 1955. He was born 1889 and his wife is Juliette. Genes members have taught us how to look for alternative methods and have finally found us the breakthrough that we needed, thanks to you all, at least we know his D.O.B. to search for him. Thanks Sandra

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-100.01-e.php

http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc017/661819a.gif

George Webb
born London, Marylebone, 17 March 1888
next of kin: nil
married: no
trade or calling: soldier
(but never served in any military force -- but reverse side of form refers to "Br Soldier", and appears to have tattoo of Br and Am flags)
enrolled at -- blamed if I can read it. Salcarlen??
attested 22 September 1914


There are two records for a George Webb born in London 14 August 1888, but he has a wife Charlotte.


Looked through the list of the 62 George Webb-s for any born around the right time, checked their attestation papers and ruled out any born other than the London area and/or with non-matching parents / wives.

That's the only one who looks possible.

If he was in Canada at the time, he would have been about 25 when WWI was started. The odds are very high that he would have enrolled or been conscripted at some point.

I just have no idea what the location shown at the bottom of the attestation paper is: "taken the oath before me at ___". There's no address on the form, since there's no next of kin.

I checked against war deaths at the Virtual War Memorial site, and that George does not appear.


There isn't a George Webb birth in Marylebone / London registered in the first two quarters of 1888 that seems to match.

If he had the year wrong himself at the time, though:

Births Jun 1889 ?
Webb George Shoreditch 1c 34


Anyhow, that looks like the only possible George in the CEF in WWI.


For info (Juliette's dob could be useful):

WEBB Juliette 1911 F 1955 Liverpool Canada Montreal
WEBB George 1889 M 1955 Liverpool Canada Montreal

These show on the same voyage - are they connected, or are they duplicates of George and Juliette maybe?

WEBB G Unknown M 1955 Liverpool Canada Montreal
WEBB J Unknown F 1955 Liverpool Canada Montreal
WEBB D Unknown M 1955 Liverpool Canada Montreal ?


Was there earlier confirmation that he travelled with that Leita, I think?

WEBB Leita >> 1902 F 1935 Southampton Canada Montreal

WEBB Leita Unknown F 1960 Southampton Canada Montreal
travelling with
WEBB George Unknown M 1960 Southampton Canada Montreal


This person in the 1911 census matches that Leita and is French-Canadian:

Filiatrault Leita F Daughter S Feb 1901 9
1911 / Quebec / Maisonneuve / 107 Montreal

The Drouin Collection at Ancestry (I don't have access)

http://search.ancestry.ca/search/db.aspx?dbid=1091&enc=1

shows no marriage or birth for a Leita Filiatrault, but it shows 3 marriages 1915-1935 for the name Juliette Filiatrault. You might want to have a look at them.



Just some musings. ;)

Dear Janey glad you are on board again, have been sent the papers for the boat, he is George D. Webb born 14.8.89. retired his wife is Juliette born 25.7.1911, housewife, the place they are visiting is correct. They are both Canadian citizens. Set off from Quebec

Have looked for a birth of George D Webb and of course cannot find one, nothing is easy. Am working my way through the 1891 census with no luck at the moment.

Will check to see if he served in British army, I have previously looked at atestation papers for Canada, there were a few with no paperwork attached. Talk again soon thanks for your help

I stuck a couple more things in that post above.

What I'm confused about is the travel records with Leita. Is that not him then?

It's interesting that the George in the CEF with wife Charlotte hada birthdate 14 August 1888. I know from experience that people sometimes tended to know their birthday, but not the year! My grandfather thought he was born in 1900 all his life, until he retired ... a year early, it turned out when he got his birth cert to claim pension.

That one was born in London, England, and had served in the 3rd Battn CEF already. And I can't read where he enrolled, either. But Charlotte's address seems to be 1255 Parthenon St, Mtl. I guess the place of attestation is a badly scrawled Montreal (the L rather than the T got crossed).

Given the age difference between him and the Juliette you've found, it's quite possible it was a second marriage.

http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc017/661818a.gif

The name isn't quite John Smith, but it's not uncommon ... but it would be somewhat less common in Montreal.

Might George have had a son (and grandson) named for himself?

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/todays-paper/DEATHS/3539966/story.html

Webb, Violet WEBB, Violet February 17, 1929 - September 13, 2010
WEBB, Violet May (nee Field) on Monday, September 13, 2010.
>> Beloved wife of the late George Webb.
[names of living people, children and grandchildren, omitted - JC]
A private family service will be held at a later date. Published in the Montreal Gazette from 9/16/2010 - 9/17/2010

If your George did have a first marriage, he might have had children with his first wife.

Given the timing, that would be a mighty (and unfortunate) coincidence.

Here's the images for Janey's bilingual Filiatrault family:

http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e002064849.pdf
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e002064850.pdf
[Leita's pob=USA immig 1910 - she's RC, so might be in the non-Quebec Drouin records - also might be in US 1910 census - since sis Laura was b 1898 in USA , family s.b. on 1900 US - her 1911 addy is 1200 Chabot]

Re George CEF # 63912 notes tattoos, but no mention of scars
George CEF# 513345 has tattoos, plus scars all over head & left shoulder & right cheek.
# 513345 is a CASC Trg Dpo # from MD2 (Military District 2 includes Montreal).

My reading of George/Charlotte's addy is 1255 Parthenais St. This is parallel to and 1 to 2 blocks NE of the Pont Jacques Cartier ramp. I guess a # like 1255 would be a block or 2 SE of Rue Ste Catherine which itself is just a block SE of Boul Maisonneuve, and would also most likely be in the Maisonneuve census subdistrict. I think the area (which is a couple of km away from the Angus Locomotive Works) has undergone some reconstruction. [I was unable to find some streets there for my own folks.]

The 3rd Bn was in the 1st Brigade of the 1st Can Division, and was the first div to go overseas.
One might reasonably infer that George was invalided out, but you'ld really need to see his service record to confirm that.

If you go to the CEF search URL janey posted:
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-100.01-e.php

but instead of doing a search, click on "search help", then there's a link there that tells you how to order his record. It's not digitized - you get xerox copies at $0.40 per page (plus postage).