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Going backwards in time:
Arthur died Galleywood, Chelmsford, Essex 3rd quarter 1932.
Married Thirza Goward Highwood, Chelmsford 3rd quarter 1902 and children were Eric, Nellie, Bert, Herman, Ralph, Claude, Cecil, Thirza (Vi) and Dorothy. Married Elizabeth Marshall 5 Jun 1892 and died 1899, who bore child believed to have been brought up by her/his parents Joseph Marshall and spouse. Arthurs marriage certificates show his father as JAMES Martin but the only link I have is that he is shown as 1 of 10/11 children to JOHN Martin and Elizabeth Cootes (Coutts) and was born in Delaware, Tasmania. EITHER his marriage lines are wrong, his birth connection is wrong, OR he quoted the wrong christian name for his father on his marriage cert, or John/James are one and the same, which I doubt. WHAT UTTER CONFUSION. Has anyone any idea how to solve my problem ? Please!!!

Ronald, it might be me but I am completely bewildered. Where does Tasmania come into it?? And what are you looking for exactly?
Jan

Aha! 1911 census:

MARTIN, Arthur Head Married 8 years M 38 1873 Carter For Flour Mills Tasmania Hobart Town Resident VIEW
MARTIN, Thirza Wife Married F 28 1883 Essex Roxwell VIEW
MARTIN, Eric Fritz Son M 6 1905 School Essex Roxwell VIEW
MARTIN, Nellie Mary Louise Daughter F 3 1908 Stock VIEW
MARTIN, Hermann Eugene Son M 1 1910 Essex Writtle VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
10059 Reference:
RG14PN10059 RG78PN529 RD194 SD2 ED14 SN81

Registration District:
Chelmsford Sub District:
Chelmsford Enumeration District:
14 Parish:
Writtle

Address:
Edney Common Highwood Chelmsford County:
Essex

I had the same problem but I think I get it now. Arthur married twice and Ronald has both marriages certs. Father recorded as James Martin. He has only been able to find an Arthur with father John on census, this Arthur being born in Tasmania.
This is obviouslty the right man as he is with Thirza in 1911 (thank god he married her and not an Elizabeth or Mary!!).
Jan

First marriage has him born c1868.

Where is he in 1901?

Rose

Actually, not sure about the census - I suspect info is from elsewhere. I think Ronald need Aussie research maybe?? Or a passenger list lookup.
jan

Elizabeth in 1891:

1891 England Census
about Elizabeth Marshall
Name: Elizabeth Marshall
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1871
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph Marshall
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Marshall
Gender: Female
Where born: St Luke, London, England

Civil parish: St George The Martyr
Ecclesiastical parish: St Alphage
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: Borough Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Marshall 42
Elizabeth Marshall 42
Elizabeth Marshall 20
Alice Marshall 18
Rosina Marshall 16

Rose

There are no Arthur Martins born Tasmania on any other censuses. I wonder if he lied on the 1911?

His first marriage and death has him born c1868:

Births Mar 1868
Martin Arthur Cecil Newington 1d 228



1871 England Census
about Arthur C Martin
Name: Arthur C Martin
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Martin
Mother's Name: Lucy Martin
Gender: Male
Where born: Walworth, Surrey, England
Civil parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Pancras
Sub-registration district: Camden Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 1
Household Members: Name Age
James Martin 30
Lucy Martin 30
Arthur C Martin 3
Emily C Martin 1
Hannah E Aber 19

Father's name matches marriage certs.

Rose

Father is listed as deceased in 1892 and Lucy is a widow here:

1891 England Census
about Arthur C Martin
Name: Arthur C Martin
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Relation: Son
Parent's Name: Lucy Martin
Gender: Male
Where born: Walworth, London, England

Civil parish: Tottenham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: Edmonton
Sub-registration district: Tottenham
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Lucy Martin 50
Arthur C Martin 23
Frances E Martin 9
Laura A Martin 8

Rose

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Arthur Cecil Martin
Name: Arthur Cecil Martin
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1868
Baptism Date: 1 Mar 1868
Father's Name: James Martin
Mother's Name: Lucy Martin
Parish or Poor Law Union: Walworth St Peter
Borough: Southwark

Rose

Child from first marriage:

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about James Cecil Martin
Name: James Cecil Martin
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1894
Baptism Date: 25 Mar 1894
Father's Name: Arthur Cecil Martin
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Martin
Parish or Poor Law Union: St George the Martyr
Borough: Southwark


Image actually says Cecil James Martin.

Rose

Thats 100% right. I've put a copy of the census on his page of my tree.

Hi Rose, thanks for that but all his BMD certificates seem to confirm my family's understanding that his dob was actually 16 Dec1874. I understand where you're coming from but,........ I just dont know. I need to spend a couple of days trying this route, and I'll let you know how I get on. Thanks for your input. Ron
ps Am off to my Grandsons wedding tomorrow.

Ronald,

Don't you think it's more than a coincidence that there's a Arthur Cecil James born exactly the right time in Walworth with a father called James who was also deceased at the time of his first marriage?

There are very few Arthur Cecil Martins on Ancestry and this one happens to match on all accounts.

What are the odds of that?

Rose

I honestly think I'm right BUT am still open to ideas. Did Arthur lie about coming from Tasmania to hide a "problem" or did he hear his dad John actually being called James, if you get what I mean. Ron

Ronald,

His first marriage and death put him being born c1868:

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about Arthur Cecil Martin
Name: Arthur Cecil Martin
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Spouse Name: Elizabeth Warshall
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 05 Jun 1892
Parish: St John the Evangelist, Walworth
County: Surrey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: James Martin

Deaths Sep 1932
Martin Arthur C 64 Chelmsford 4a 512

What age is given on the 2nd marriage and who were the witnesses?

Rose

Is this Elizabeth's death?

Deaths Dec 1899
Martin Elizabeth 28 St.Geo. H. Sq. 1a 400

Rose

Maybe he gave his father's name as Jim and the Aussie official thought he said John. Or maybe his father was known as Jack, and the Aussie official interpreted that a being a nickname for John (which is common).

Did either of the marriage certs give an occupation for his father?

He appears to have completed the 1911 census himself - and very nice handwriting for a carter back then, indicating an education? One child had died by then.

I think you need to put Australia in your heading, to attract those members with access to such records.

Hi Rose,
Yes, you are right. Have added Regn details to my tree.
Will have a purge on the other "loadsa info" you've put on this set-up for me when I get back from grandsons wedding in a couple of days.
Many thanks,
Ron
ps where do you get your patience from?

I'm backing away from the Tazzy link for a few days. The marriage certs show James (Arthurs father) on both of them AND they show James as deceased.
Appreciate yor input.
Ron