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Hi Dee

If ever a family didn't want to be found it's them. John and Louisa's first child, Alfred Nyman Staples is born in the Ashbourne District of Derbyshire in 1852 but I have looked through the 5 volumes of the Derbyshire 1851 Census without even feeling I was getting close.

I've checked most of the states that convicts went to and not found Jon Bunney either.

Something has to turn up soon.

Keith

Oh dear Keith,

Looks like Louisa may have had a bad start to married life, bless. Sounds like Jonathan may have been a bad apple, and you know what they say about mud........ so I would imagine a move from that area was a must, she would never live it down otherwise!

I just can't find anything on census for her bar the 1841 census, why??? I've considered the possible name changes for a surname, used Nyman, Bunney, Staples and variants, they just don't want to be found.

Got to do some housework now, but like Arnie says "I'll be back!"


Dee x

Good Morning Dee

Actually it's evening here in Melbourne, Australia.

I don't think Louisa got herself in with a very good crew, I have just found a record from Leicester County Sessions dated 27 Jun 1842, of him being sentenced to 7 years jail for receiving stolen goods. And he'd done a 3 month stretch for larceny in 1831.

Seven Years meant transportation to Australia. I'll have a look and see if he made it past the hulks and the voyage.

Keith

Morning Keith,

just looking through the archive newspapers and hoping to find something.

I've found this in the The Leicester Chronicle: or, Commercial and Agricultural Advertiser and it states;

"Jonathan Bunny of Castle Donnington was fined 5s and costs for assaulting Sarah Wright"

The date was 14th August 1841.

So just a snippet of info.


I'm going to be trawling through the papers so keep your fingers crossed.


Dee x

Hi Dee

It's a small world. Belated but heartfelt thanks for your previous help.

I had got stuck because Louisa had Joseph Bunney down as her father on her wedding cert, which was not true and you unlocked the puzzle but it took me ages to not only make the leap from Bunney to Nyman but also from Derbyshire to London. When the penny dropped I discovered all the Nymans you listed and more.

Yes Joseph was a wholesale furrier and he wed Elizabeth at St Leonards, Shoreditch.

The address in Central Street (then the other Brick Lane) which Louisa and John moved to between 1852 and 1845 was in between Fetter Lane and St Leonards so I guess she had relatives in the area, but whether they were Nyman's, Tyrells, or Staples I don't know. All those families and some Bunneys show there or thereabouts in Census records.

On another point, according to a business directory I found the address Emma is living at for the 1881 census 423 Edgware Road Paddington, is either owned by or next to business properties of members of the Nyman family and the house at 91 Judd Street is part of the Skinners company estate. So whilst they no doubt disapproved of Emma's children out of wedlock they appear to have supported her.

Somebody or other Judd was the head of Skinners at some stage and I guess that Benjamin Nyman as a furrier in the City would have had to be a member to operate within the City. If this is correct then he would also have had to be a Freeman of the City of London and there should be a record, but that too escapes me.

My mother who knew nothing at all about Emma's early life but as my father's grandmother she met her on a few occasions before and after they were wed and declared her a lady which is a surprise as she did not ever take to my father's family and the term lady she did not use very often. In fact it was reserved for the very very few individuals she was in awe of.

I trust life in the Batcave is all you would wish.

Keith

Name: Elizabeth Nyman
Gender: Female
Burial Date: 24 Jun 1832
Burial Place: London, England
Death Date:
Death Place: St. Dunstans
Age: 46
Birth Date: 1786
Birthplace:
Occupation:
Race:
Marital Status:
Spouse's Name:
Father's Name:
Father's Birthplace:
Mother's Name:
Mother's Birthplace:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B03719-7
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 596968
Reference Number: 278
Collection: England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991

Name: Benjamin Nyman
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 19 Dec 1830
Burial Place: London, England
Death Date:
Death Place: St. Dunstans
Age: 53
Birth Date: 1777
Birthplace:
Occupation:
Race:
Marital Status:
Spouse's Name:
Father's Name:
Father's Birthplace:
Mother's Name:
Mother's Birthplace:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B03684-1
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 596968
Reference Number: 216
Collection: England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991

So;

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Louisa Nyman
Name: Louisa Nyman
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 23 Aug 1818
Father's Name: Benjamin Nyman
Mother's Name: Elizabeth Nyman
Parish: St James, Clerkenwell
Borough: Islington
County: Middlesex

I think Benjamin is a Furrier and the address is Fetter Lane


All baptisms;

View Record
Henry Nyman Baptism 6 Jun 1813 Benjamin Nyman,
Elizabeth Nyman St John the Baptist, Clerkenwell Islington

View Record
Henry Nyman Baptism 6 Jun 1813 Benjamin Nyman,
Elizabeth Nyman St James, Clerkenwell Islington

View Record
Caroline Nyman Baptism 22 Oct 1815 Benjamin Nyman,
Eliz Nyman St John the Baptist, Clerkenwell Islington

View Record
Caroline Nyman Baptism 22 Oct 1815 Benjamin Nyman,
Elizabeth Nyman St James, Clerkenwell Islington

View Record
Louisa Nyman Baptism 23 Aug 1818 Benjamin Nyman,
Elizabeth Nyman St James, Clerkenwell Islington

View Record
Catherine Nyman Baptism 12 Dec 1820 Benjamin Nyman,
Elizabeth Nyman St Andrew Holborn City of London

View Record
Alfred Nyman Baptism 8 Sep 1825 Benjamin Nyman,
Elizabeth Nyman St Andrew Holborn City of London

View Record
Robert James Nyman Baptism 10 Dec 1826 Benjamin Nyman,
Elizabeth Nyman St Andrew Holborn City of London

View Record
Charles Nyman Baptism 12 Jul 1827 Benjamin Nyman,
Elizabeth Nyman St Dunstan in the West City of London

Well Keith it seems I helped out previously with Louisa, I thought that Louisa Nyman Bunney rang a bell. I was just plain Denise then and then I morphed into my board name.

Anyway back onto the search,

Dee x

Dee

I've just thought of some further information that may or may not help.
John Staples and Louisa Nyman Bunney wed at Duffield, Derbyshire in 1847. I've got no idea where John was born but Louisa is born in Fetter lane in the City of London. Louisa had been married before in 1840 at Leicester to a John Bunney who I assume died though I've no idea what she was doing so far from home.

The reason I mention this is that a John Staples dies at Belper, Derbyshire in 1863 and the Belper District includes Duffield. It's possible that they returned to the East Midlands after 1857 although I have not been able to find any trace of them either in London or Derbyshire.

Keith

Hi Dee

Thanks so much for sticking with it. I think we can go either way. I suspect if we could locate Emma/Emily/Kate/whatever in the 1871 Census then John Sewell might not be that far away.

I also think that John probably died and that is why he can't be located. Louisa, Emma's mother's maiden name was Nyman if that helps. She got in some trouble with the law in 1864 and I found a record but no conviction was recorded. I've always wondered if she had lost John and was desperate.

Keith

Hi Keith,

not found anything yet other than the 1881 census returns I posted earlier.

I'll be having another look about in a mo, do you want me to concentrate on the Sewell or Staples side??

The problem we have with John Sewell is he is just (not meant funnily) a name... we have no other details bar his occupation, so finding him and getting him to "stick" to your tree will be very difficult, but on the flip side of that Emma/Emily/Kate is real and we have more to work with there. I'm thinking that John Staples died and mum either remarried or took up with someone else. At least the Granddaughter carries her name which is a positive for knowing she probably played a part in her daughters life??


Dee x

Still looking for John Sewell

A few comments Dee
Firstly Louise wasn't baptised til she was 12 for some unknown reason.

Emma's son John marries Edward Henry Kickham's daughter Elizabeth who is a child of his first marriage and Emma is his third wife. That took some working out I can tell you.

I think the John Sewell-Staples (father) is a fictitious name to hide the fact that he was a Sewell and they were Staples.

The first use I can find of the Sewell-Staples name is for John jnr's 1895 marriage. He uses it and gives it to his father. On that cert I have his sister Louise as one of the witnesses.

Emma lives at 91 Judd Street until at least 1907 when her husband Edward dies. She is at another address during WW1 and in 1921 is at 53 Richmond Road Barnsbury, London. At some stage moves to Whittlesford Cambridge where her daughter Louise has gone with her husband. This is where the Peters family come from. Both Louise and her mother are buried in the Church yard at Whittlesford.
Keith

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about George Samiuel Peters
Name: George Samiuel Peters
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1877
Spouse Name: Louise Alfreda Sewell-Staples
Spouse Age: 17
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 2 Apr 1899
Parish: St Pancras Parish Church
County: Middlesex
Borough: Camden
Father Name: Obediah Peters
Spouse Father Name: John Sewell-Staples >> Engineer (deceased)


91 Judd street is the address given by both.


Dee x

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about John Sewell Staples
Name: John Sewell Staples
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Spouse Name: Elizabeth Kirkham
Spouse Age: 19
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 6 May 1895
Parish: St Paul, Clerkenwell
County: Middlesex
Borough: Islington
Father Name: John Sewell Staples


Winesses; Kate Kirkham, Joseph Greenfield and Louis Sewell staples


??????????????????



Dee x

Keith,

I'm still looking and came across this;

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Louisa Alfreda Sewell Staples
Name: Louisa Alfreda Sewell Staples
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 24 Mar 1894
Father's Name: John Staples >> Civil Engineer
Mother's Name: Emma Alfreda Staples
Parish: St Pancras Parish Church
Borough: Camden
County: Middlesex

91 Judd Street



Dee x

Hi Dee
You're a dynamo, you can check so much so quickly.
Keith

Hi rootgatherer
I've tried this record before and even checked it with living family members and they don't think it is the same family, but it looks very close.
Cheers, Keith

Hi Keith,

I'm struggling to see the 1 that states he was born in Scotland on the 1871 census, I'll keep looking.


Dee x