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Thank you - I gave GRONI this information as well - suggesting that Bridget's mother could have been called McCann prior to her marriage to Peter McCaffrey/Caffrey and they said that nothing came up under this info either - I have to be honest and say that they were not particularly helpful or accommodating and I felt like a criminal for having asked. and on the first 4 searches they used info that had no bearing on the info that I had given them and were searching for Bridgets that were born in 1860 and not in Armagh.
I think that this probably is Bridget - although the age doesn't quite fit in with the age on her marriage certificate, it exactly matches the age given on the 1911 census in England where she was living with the Jeffers. The only thing that confuses me a little is that at the time of her marriage she had moved away from her sister and was living in Moston and also that her sister was not a witness at her marriage.

Is it possible to get census returns for Ireland pre- 1901? If so, where from?
And again, many thanks.

Mike

Michael...I find it astonishing GRONI has given you that info....!!
Just to show it does exist ...May be Brid....maybe not.

Residents of a house 11 in Lurgancullenboy (Creggan Lower, Armagh) 1901

Mc Cann Rose 78 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Armagh Farmer Read only Irish and English Widow Neither
Mc Cann Bridget 30 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Armagh Dressmaker Read only English Not Married Neither
Mc Cann Rose 20 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Armagh Farmer's Daughter Read and write English Not Married Neither
**Caffrey Bridget 12 Female Grand Daughter Roman Catholic**

Thank you.
GRONI don't know of Creggan or Lower Creggan - so this helps a lttle bit - in fact they weren't much help at all, sending me suggestions for people born in 1860 despite me giving them the infoI've listed here - so, thank you - much appreciated.

Mike.

Michael...
Lower Creggan is what you are probably looking for...dont know of a Creegan in the Co Armagh.

Hi,
No - I haven't given upon trying to find the dates of death or the burial places of Bridget and Thomas Stuart - I am currently following up on the various suggestions that have been made both on here and on other forums - unfortunately, I only have a very limited amount of time to spend on it, so whilst I wait for one thing I start to look at the next line that I need to enquire about.
The info about Annie and Michael's marriage is very interesting - on the 1911 census they were both shown as having been born in Lower Crigan (which I believe doesn't exist but Creegan does (typographical errors I assume based on strong accents)) so to find they were married in Salford is great - I'll follow up on getting the marriage certificate - it might give me more useful info.
By 1917 Annie and Michael's daughter (Annie) was living with Bridget and Thomas Stuart (shown on his WW1 Army Records) - but their first child (John) wasn't). The daughter Annie died in 1923 which sort of made sense with something I remembered my mother telling me when I was about 7 or 8. I think that I'd maybe assumed that Annie Snr, Michael and John had returned to Ireland - but that could be a totally wrong assumption.
Thanks again, much appreciated.

Mike

Michael, I thought you were looking for the death of Bridget McCaffrey and her husband's burial. I did make several suggestions, so have you abandoned that?

I can only find this reasonable marriage for Annie:

Marriages Jun 1904 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CAFFREY Annie Salford 8d 278
JEFFERS Michael Salford 8d 278
Partington John James Salford 8d 278
Smith Edith Salford 8d 278

It might be worth getting this marriage cert to see if her father was deceased in 1904.

Have you looked for a death of Michael Caffrey/McCaffrey? I can't find a "good" one.

Trying to Find: Bridget McCaffrey or Caffrey
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Michael Yesterday at 22:44 Request review

I am trying to trace my grandmother and hitting a brick wall each way I turn.
I knew that she was called Bridget and born in Ireland.
By getting my grandfather's marriage certificate I found out that she was called McCaffrey (although in Ireland she would equally be known as Caffrey)
She married my grandfather on 31.07.1912 at St. Marie's Church, Failsworth.
On my grandfather's WW1 Record it showed that he had 3 children - Frances and Thomas and Annie Jeffers (his wife's sister's daughter aged 9) I checked Annie Jeffers up on the 1911 census and found her living with her mother Annie Jeffers and her father Michael and my grandmother Bridget Caffrey (although her age differs a little from that given on her marriage certifficate 15 months later)
On her marriage certificate she says that her father was Peter - a deceased farmer.
On the 1911 census she says that she comes from Lower Crigan, Armagh.
GRONI have done numerous searches for me using this information and have so far come up with nothing - they have checked the whole of County Armagh for the period 1880 - 1890.

Can anybody offer me some advice on who my grandmother was, where she came from, and who her family were? Or some pointers on where to look - I am totally stumped by this - so any help would be great.

Michael, your family told you that Thomas died after WW2- could they have actually meant after WW2 started?


Like the others have said, if it was me, I would put myself out of my suspense and buy those certificates - even if it would only eliminate them as possibilities.


People don't always remember dates for family events that happened years earlier and this shows with your family if the nearest time of death that they could give you for Thomas was after WW2 and not an actual year. You need to try to be more flexible about the information passed down through the family and search on either side of the timescale that you have been given.

Please don't give up though and if you do buy the certificates, it would be nice if you came back to the thread to let people know if they are the right or wrong ones.

Good Luck.

I really dont know why you wonderful lot are bothering to help him.
All the info he has is just ''assumptions''. Anything concrete that you have found is dismissed.
Its difficult when the part of the country that everything took place in ,,is not local to you.
If you dont believe what the helpful people on here are telling you Michael then get off your backside and go where ever it is and look it up yourself.

Not all info the family members pass on verbally is correct,,,many of us have found that out during our research.

1911 Irish records

Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living
Martin Michael 56 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Church Fermanagh Farmer Cannot read - Married - - - -
Martin Mary 69 Female Wife Roman Catholic Church Fermanagh - Read - Married - 24 - -
McCaffrey Bridget 24 Female Niece Roman Catholic Church Fermanagh - Read and write - Single - - - -
Report any error in transcription




McCaffrey Mary 57 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Fermanagh Farmer Read and write - Widow - - - -
McCaffrey Bridget 25 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Fermanagh - Read and write - Single - - - -
McCaffrey Edward 23 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Fermanagh Farmers Son Read and write - Single - - - -
McCaffrey Ellen 21 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Fermanagh - Read and write - Single - - - -
McCaffrey Francis 17 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Fermanagh Farmers Son Read and write - Single - - - -


There could be more free to view

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/

this might answer your question about who Mary E McNamus wa, your Thomas seems to have a sister Mary E, maybe she married a McManus

1881
Thomas S. Robinson
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Ellen Maud
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 7 Hall St
Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Ancoats
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
James Robinson 33
Ellen Maud Robinson 28
Mary E. Robinson 4
Thomas S. Robinson 3
Frances Robinson 1

Don't shout at the lad, it is very difficult when you start off with family stories - you imagine they are right. And sometimes there is a glimmer of truth in them, but not quite accurate.

I agree with everyone Michael. I would get that death certificate. We have nothing better to offer you at the moment.

Unfortunately, when you have nothing definite to go on, and finding a particular piece of information is important to you, you have to spend money on certificates that may not turn out to be correct. I've just had two this week for my gg grandfather John Kelly which weren't him. He was a Roman Catholic too!!!

What you will be hoping for is that it will say he was a bottle dealer, or similar, that the informant will be a family member, and that he died at an address you recall someone mentioning. The address may give you a closer location to look for a Catholic burial ground - Manchester has lots of them. Some of the burial records for Catholic Churches are held at Manchester Archives. Or you could make direct contact with the church(es). You may find one with a Robinson grave with other members in it whom you recognise as yours. There may even be headstone.

I cannot find her


Try this site

Cemeteries
•Cemetery Rd, Cemetery

•St John, Oldham Road, Church of England

•Laycock Crescent, Jewish Cemetery

•Bethel, Oldham Rd, Methodist New Connexion

•Immaculate Conception, Oldham Rd, Roman Catholic
•St Mary (The Immaculate Conception), Oldham Rd, Roman Catholic

•Dob Lane, Unitarian

Nope...Mother wasnt Nelly...I did know her name at least!

Soz...naughty Gins

Michael....what do you think, get that cert and find out either way..

...we all have to do it if we are serious about the facts


x

What if she was nely arrived from Ireland and stayed with friends/family

Ha...I was NEVER told by my mother that she married her cousin!

Do you get the gist Mike?

You have had some of the best researchers looking into your case...dont forget they are not 'paid' they just want to help hun

I still stand by Jans find ...I think, now it's up to you...

WE are very helpful but will not buy the cert for you hun

Go on babe....go for it ;)

Haversham Street in Moston does not exist.


This is the result for 40 Faversham Street.
1911 census - address transcription
Address: 40 Favershame St Moston

162 KEENAN, James Bernard Head Married M 37 1874 Railway Ticket Collector Leigh Lancashire VIEW
162 KEENAN, Katherine Wife Married
9 years F 38 1873 Castleblaney Ireland Resident VIEW
162 KEENAN, Mary Agnes Daughter F 7 1904 School Manchester Lancashire VIEW
162 KEENAN, Nellie Daughter F 4 1907 Manchester Lancashire VIEW
162 WOOD, Ellen Boarder Widow F 76 1835 Finisher Tailoring Manchester Lancashire

Michael

you are NOT helping at all!


All you are doing is dismissing any documentation found for you on the basis of hearsay ... you are "sure" that this happened or that happened, but have no actual proof that this or that indeed did happen at that time.


Reading through this thread

..... I would say that every one of the helpers has gone above and beyond the highest degree of help for you

..... and yet all you can say is "Not mine",

.............. followed by repetitive "Can anybody help me to trace the dates and places of death of my grandparents and if possible the places of burial?
Any help; pointers; advice would be really appreciated."


You've been given countless pointers .......... all dismissed out of hand.



Getting your parents' marriage certificate, while very helpful for your research, and indeed to be highly recommended, will NOT tell you anything about whether your grandfather actually attended the wedding, unless he happened to be one of the witnesses and so signed the certificate.

On the other hand ....... finding photographs of their wedding or of the lunch/dinner whatever that followed may well give you that information ......... as parents of the bride and groom are almost invariably included in such photos.


I would suggest that the death in 1940 for Thomas S Robinson looks the most likely of the deaths found for you ......... and can only suggest that you BUY that certificate, and hope that the informant is someone you know!



Also, remember that the only information found on a death certificate that is bound to be true is

date, place, and cause of death
name of doctor
name, address and relationship of informant.


ALL other information is only that which is known to the informant ....... so name, age, birth date, marital status, etc of the deceased may ALL be wrong.



The informant might not have known that the deceased had a middle name.

The deceased might have told everyone that he/she was older or younger than he/she was.



So ..... you have to loosen up, stop being so dogmatic about what you think you know

...... and buy some certificates in the hope that they will answer your questions.





sylvia

I was told by my parents that he had died after WW2 and I am pretty sure that they said that he attended their wedding. I think that the only way to find out is to get their wedding certificate and see what it says.
If I send for the death certificate, how will I know for sure that it is him?
Thanks.

Mike

Michael

I think Jan found his death earlier in the life of your thread.

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Thomas S Robinson
Name: Thomas S Robinson
Death Registration Month/Year: 1940
Age at death (estimated): 62
Registration district: Manchester
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8d
Page: 841



You dismiss this death and say that he died post 1945. How do you know this for sure?

You don’t know for sure as we don't either, but what Jan found early on looks like a very good bet to me.

I'd send for the certificate and if it is him it may give you more details of where he is buried...it has been known to be included on a death certificate