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Hi Janey Thank you My cousin has just done this

Brenda, it is absolutely pointless, as I explained, to contact GenesReunited about this. That company has nothing at all to do with birth registrations, and in fact its staff knows very little about family history research in general. I have no idea why you would be expecting them to tell you anything. The records you pay to access at this site don't belong to GenesReunited and GenesReunited has absolutely nothing to do with creating them, or with birth registrations.

If you read what I have explained twice now, you will see what the problem is.

There is every reason to believe that the birth WAS registered, it is just that there seem to be pages missing from the GRO births index that FreeBMD and Ancestry have copies of.

What you need to do is contact *the General Register Office* and ask whether they can find a record of a twin for the birth record you do have.

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/contact_us.asp

Hi Janey I contacted Genes Reunited and they sent a long e-mail explaing all about registration ect and how a mother had 42 days to register a birth. I replied pointing out my Grandmother would hardly register one twin and not the other. It was signed by "A member of the suppiort team". And no we dont really need the elder twins birth certifficate but my cousin and I think his son knows more than he is letting on as his father would have been 6 when his father left and maybee things he saw or heard made him want to change his name . Its all so compicated I doupt we will ever get to the bottom of it all. but many many thanks to you all for trying. As I have a huge work load coming up before I leave to work in America for two wweeks in September this will probably be the last time I'll be able to come on for a while. So once again thank you all
Brenda

I don't understand, Brenda -- how would GenesReunited know this? Did you mean the General Register Office (GRO)? GenesReunited only gives access to copies of registration info that comes from somewhere else. (The same applies to Ancestry, etc.) GenesReunited doesn't know anything about registrations, I'm afraid.

I think you can ask the GRO for a search for children of particular parents in a certain time and place.


edit - Brenda - did you read what I put in my previous post?

Do the search at FreeBMD for surname Edwards born jan-feb-mar 1920.

The first part of the list is dark pink. Then it changes to light pink.

Francis W T Edwards is dark pink. Then the next name is James H Edwards, in light pink.


Here, this is how the list looks:

... Edwards Frances M Beaver Keynsham 5c 1056
Edwards Francis G Arnold Willesden 3a 665
Edwards Francis P Bevan Swansea 11a 572
Edwards Francis T Crew Newport M. 11a 714
Edwards Francis W T Simmonds Bristol 6a 432
Edwards James H Foster Plymouth 5b 558
Edwards James M Davies St. Asaph 11b 625
Edwards James W A Whitehouse W. Bromwich 6b
Edwards Jane M Davies Tregaron 11b 97 ...

See how it skips from Francis to James? **Missing page(s)**


And the key at FreeBMD says: "Change of shade means a possible gap in the data".

There is *information missing*. It looks like *one or more pages* with the surname Edwards in jan-feb-mar 1920 was missing when the transcribing was done. And as Jooleh says, there are pages missing from the images at Ancestry.

Both FreeBMD and Ancestry seem not to have the page where Frederick's name appears or would appear.

So it looks like Frederick's birth WAS registered, it's just that there is a page missing at FreeBMD and Ancestry.


That's what you need to ask the General Register Office --

- whether they have the missing page

- whether they can find the birth certificate for you by using the same info as for Edith's registration:

Mother's Maiden Surname: Hower***
Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1920
Registration district: Lichfield
Volume Number: 6b
Page Number: 1099

*** except that it may say HEWER.


But since you know about him, you don't really need his birth info, do you?

I have contacted Genes Reunited asking as to how my fathers elder sister who died Edith Joan Edwards born in 1920 was registered and yet no record can be found of the brother Frederick George Edwards. Also I have found the Marrage of this older brother who changed his name to Willetts . He married Edna m Boswell in 1945. and both his children are registered as Willetts.I have been trying to contact Frederick son as is another cousin of mine but he isnt answering our calls.so another mystery?
Brenda

Not that it helps much right now but marriage witness probably this one:

Births Mar 1897 (>99%)
Mayo Margaret Annie Cheltenham 6a 396


1901 Census
Name: Margaret Mays
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1897
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William J
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Female
Where born: Up Hatherly, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Up Hatherley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Phillip and St James
County/Island: Gloucestershire


Registration district: Cheltenham
Sub-registration district: Charlton Kings
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
William J Mays 63
Sarah Mays 45
James Mays 20
Ida Mays 17
Albert Mays 12
Lena Mays 8
Hilda Mays 7
Margaret Mays 4

Image looks like Mayo so have made a correction to the surname on Ancestry (they are on FMP as Mayo)

Julie

This is Frederick William Buckle in 1911

BUCKLE, Fredrick William Head Married M 21 1890 Finisher In Dyehouse Burley in Warfdale Yorks
BUCKLE, Mary Ann Wife Married
1 years F 19 1892 Castleford Yorks
BUCKLE, Mary Daughter F 0 (11 WEEKS) 1911 Castleford Yorks
CARR, Annie Boarder Single F 23 1888 Gasser Barnsley Yorks

Address:
6 Varley Fold Ivegate Yeadon


So I dont think its the same Frederick William that is father to Ediths children as Edwards.

pvt. Edward Buckle born 1893c residence at time of marrage
Fulfard York. it looks like, probably an army barracks, He was a pvt in The West Yorkshire Regiment. married Edith Annie Hewer-Cox November 20th 1915. Edwards fathers name is listed as Edward Buckle Coachman. The Marrage was witnessed by Ernest Harry Hewer-Cox father and Margaret Annie Mayo. The Marrage took place in Leckhampton Gloustershire

Brenda.
Please would you give the details of Edward Buckle and his fathers details so I can find him on census as I would like to check something out on him.

Fan

Just something else thats odd I have looked up Edward Buckle who Edith Annie Her Cox mairried on November 20th 1915...... I have a copy of the marrage certificate ....I looked up Edward in the 1901 census and guess what he had a brother......Frederick William lol....Surely its just coincedence that the father of 6 of her children is Frederick William..but surname Edwards ??oh mine and my cousins brains are going into overdrive. Am I getting paranoid??
Brenda

Only problem is that FreeBMD doesn't show any matching Edwards birth in Lichfield in that quarter, Q1 1920, and their transcription is independent of Ancestry's after 1915 ...

Births Mar 1920
Edwards Alice Cannon Lichfield 6b 1060
Edwards Charles W Boyce Lichfield 6b 1109
Edwards Edith J Hower Lichfield 6b 1099
Edwards Ernest E Evans Lichfield 6b 1108 Scan available - click to view
Edwards Esther A Cooke Lichfield 6b 1076


I wonder whether something happened to other pages? With the names starting with A, C and E only -- one might have expected the odd one later in the alphabet!

But no, for all of England/Wales, Edwards births in that quarter at FreeBMD go all the way up to Wyndham. ... But they do skip from Francis W T to James H, yes indeed, and given that there were, e.g. 4 Francis-s, one would have expected a Frederick or a George or a Henry before getting to James. So maybe the problem is in the GRO index itself, damage or loss or something.

The shading of the pink background over the surnames at FreeBMD changes from dark to light after Francis. And the key there says: "Change of shade means a possible gap in the data".

Brenda
Re the birth reg of Frederick, twin of Edith Joan. I posted on pg5 why I think it can't be found.

The image of the page of GRO indexes on which Edith Joan Edwards appears is fine but it ends with the entry of a Francis Edwards. That is page 491 so you would expect Frederick to be on the next page 492 but Ancestry have muddled it and put page 494 in it's place. So the pages run 491, 494, 493, 494.....

I e-mailed them 2 weeks ago to point this out and they acknowledged saying they would sort it out. Just checked and it's still pg 494 but hopefully they'll sort it soon.

Julie

Hi Janey, That last bit you posted made me chuckle" just avoid messy complications when she married" ohh boy didnt she just. My cousin and I cant contact our cousin( Malcolm) who is the son of Ediths and Frederick Edwards eldest son Frederick George (who was twin to Edith Joan the daughter who passed in 1921) and for whom no birth records can be found. Her record is there but not his?? Cousin Malcolm is being very reticent about any information, Yet at the funeral of our fathers brother Walter youngest son of The Edith/Frederick match he said he had his fathers birth certificate, Yet when we telephone he is never at home and doesnt return our calls when messages are left.It was his father who changed his name to Willetts and why we have no idea. oh well who knows one day we might learn something
Regards Brenda

No, that doesn't make sense. Men didn't take on their wives' surnames to make their wives' children look legitimate. ;)

Edith just gave the name Hewer-Cox because her real name was Hewer and she was using the name Cox -- or possibly she was using Hewer-Cox herself, although it seems not -- and she called her father by the same name to make herself look legitimate / make him look like her real father / just avoid messy complications when she married.

Just to update you all who have been so kind in helping me my cousin has the marrage certificate of Edith Annie Hewer-Cox married to Edward Buckle in 1915. Fathers name and this is odd Ernest Hewer- Cox. This must be who Annie Hewer married in I belive 1895 but his name was just Cox then so must have taken on the Hewer to give Edith legitamacy of some sorts.. I will check records again.Still no trace of any marrage between Edith Annie and Frederick Edwards. and the above post must be right acording to my uncle she was a servant at a ladies college
Thanks everyone

COX, John Head Married M 45 1866 G W R Out Porter Glos Chetenham
COX, Jane Elizabeth Wife Wife F 46 1865 Glos Chetenham
COX, John Son Single M 20 1891 Librarian Glos Chetenham
COX, Edith Daughter Single F 19 1892 Domestic Servant General Glos Chetenham
COX, Florence Daughter F 10 1901 School Glos Chetenham

Registration District:
Cheltenham

Address:
Myrth Cottage Malthouse Lane Cheltenham County:
Gloucestershire


*************************************


Address:
Glengar Cheltenham

COX, Edith Servant Single F 19 1892 Parlourmaid Cheltenham

The establishment is a College.

Yes Julie Edith was born in Ullenwood

Hi Julie, Thank you yes it could be her because I know she was working at a girls school around that time in Cheltenham. My half uncle has told me this. I wuld be grateful if someone ould look this up as its a distinct possabillity its her. Also I shall be telephoning my cousintomorrow who has now received the marrage between Edward Buckle and Edith Aniie hewer Cox.My cousin just left me a note on my e-mail as I'm away from home at the moment.
Thanks to everyone.....who knows we MAY find Frederick William Edwards although I know its a very very slim chance.
Regards Brenda

There are 2 of these entries in 1911:

Household COX, Edith 1892 19 F Cheltenham Gloucestershire

One of them is in a household with 57 other females.

Any chance some kind person with a sub could look her up, see where she is and where she was born????

Thanks

Julie

Ernest Cox and Sarah Ann Hewer were married in Badgeworth.

COX Ernest HEWER Sarah Cheltenham Badgeworth Holy Trinity 1897

Badgeworth is the place of birth of Ernest Cox in that 1901 census posted earlier.

Brenda did you find out from Edith's birth certificate exactly where she was born? The 1901 census for Edith Cox gives Ullenwood as place of birth.

Julie