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Hi Dea & Ginny

Thank you again for all the wonderful information.

I thought Margaret's Paternal Grandparents may have been incorrect, hence them only being 'pencilled in'. I'm pleased that you have confirmed that for me.

So Margaret was still in Scotland in 1891, then somehow moved to either Northumberland or Newcastle where she met William and married him 5 years later.

I mention Northumberland as I also have Brydons on my tree living in Northumberland as farmers. Unfortunately I haven't got either a George or a Walter Brydon on my tree. Having said that though I have only followed the one line of the Brydon's that followed my Fathers Line. My Gt. Grandfather Forest Maughan married a Mary Brydon, who's father was James Brydon b. 1803.

I've also checked another "Genes" Tree that I have access to but I can't find anything on there either that would seem to match up to the Brydon's in Scotland...

I was also thinking that Mary could have been Margaret's child after all, she did call her Mary, which was her mothers name, and that was more or less the naming pattern they followed way back then? Maybe I'm clutching at straws though as it seems there is just no way we can prove it...

Thank you all again for your help. I feel I'm being helped by the "Heir Hunters", (as seen on the telly), only I haven't received a huge some of money at the end of the programme, only something much more valuable to me, information!

I think the time has come where maybe I should give up on Mary Vevers, as I'm sure you'll all have your own trees you should be working on.

But, as ever Thank You again for all your time and efforts on my behalf.

Cheers

Joy :-)

I wonder how these are related and whats with the mothers name?

1841 Scotland Census
about John Little
Name: John Little
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Gender: Male
Where born: Dumfriesshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Canonbie
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Hairlaw
Parish Number: 814
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Mcdougal 45 <<??? Ag labourer
Jannet Hutton 25
John Little 10
Margaret Little 8
James Johnstone 3

Well we may as well have the full set as we have no luck with Mary at the moment


1851 Scotland Census
about John Little
Name: John Little
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1830
Relationship: Son
Parent's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Canonbie, Dumfriesshire
Parish Number: 814
Civil parish: Canonbie
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Harelaw
Occupation: Coat Miner
ED: 1
Page: 4 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 12
Line: 7
Roll: CSSCT1851_205
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Little 59
John Little 21
Gideon Murray 64 <<<Cousin to Elizabeth

1871 Scotland Census
about Margaret Little
Name: Margaret Little
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relationship: Daur (Daughter)
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Female
Where born: Canonbie, Dumfrieshire
Registration Number: 814
Registration district: Canonbie
Civil parish: Canonbie
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Hairlaw
Occupation: General Servant Domestic
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 52
Line: 5
Roll: CSSCT1871_182
Household Members: Name Age
John Little 40
Mary Little 36
Margaret Little 15
Janet Little 10
John Little 11
George Little 2 Mo
Elizabeth Little 74

1861 Scotland Census
about Margaret Little
Name: Margaret Little
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relationship: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Female
Where born: Canonbie, Dumfriessh
Registration Number: 814
Registration district: Canonbie
Civil parish: Canonbie
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Hairlaw
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 59
Line: 20
Roll: CSSCT1861_142
Household Members: Name Age
John Little 30 <<<Railway labourer
Mary Little 26
Margaret Little 5
Janet Little 1 Mo
Elizabeth Little 68 <<Mother to John farmers widow

Hi Joy,

Glad you are feeling a bit better today.

Firstly - that marriage to James Tears - I can't find my note at the moment but I know it wasn't her! - I think I found the marriage details on Ancestry but anyway, it definately isn't the one.

Re Margaret moving with the Brydon family to Northumberland - It is possible she moved 'within' that family as she was with a different family in 1881 with the same name.

The George she was with on 1891 was a Grocer and in 1881 she was with this family:

1881 Scotland Census
about Margaret Little
Name: Margaret Little
Age: 25
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relationship: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Cannobie, Dumfriesshire
Registration Number: 794
Registration district: Kirktown
Civil parish: Kirktown
County: Roxburghshire
Address: Winningtonrigg
Occupation: General Servant (Domestic)
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 7
Line: 13
Roll: cssct1881_319
Household Members: Name Age
Walter Brydon 49
Kate Brydon 40
William Brydon 3
David B Brydon 1
Maggie Ruthven 17
Margaret Little 25
Elizabeth Steel 23
John Wylie 17

Walter's occupation - Farmer Of 600 Acres Of Which 280 Arable Employing 3 Men 2 Girls & 1 Boy

I haven't checked to see if the two Brydons are connected but it seems very possible?

Also there are quite a few Brydons from Scotland in Northumberland on 1901 but again, I haven't looked into this further as yet.

I will see if I can come up with anything else.

Dea x

Hi Dea, Ginny, Rose & all,

It seems the early night and "doping myself up" really helped, I feel really good today!

I'm afraid I don't know anything else about Mary Vevers other than what I have already told you and what you ever so helpful people have found for me...

I did do a hunt for a Mary Vevers marriage a couple of weeks ago and all I could come up with was "Mary E Vevers m James Tears 1919, 10b 1223 4th Qtr, Carlisle, but I think it may be another Mary, with the marriage being in Carlisle and there being quite a few Vevers living there? And apart from that 'my' Mary doesn't seem to have a second name? But there again, Rose couldn't find a Marriage or Death for Mary in the Ncle. area.

I think you have come up trumps, Dea as it certainly looks like my Margaret Little on the 1891 Scottish Census. I wonder what made her move to Newcastle though. If the family had moved there would she have gone with them? Did it say what the head of the family did for a living by any chance?

Amongst my notes too I have "pencilled in" the names of her Paternal Grandparents, nothing being confirmed. They could be David Little b. 12/2/1800, Annan, Dumfries and Margaret Patterson, b. c1804 Annan, Dumfries.

Do you think It's it possible that Margaret may have had a younger sister called Mary, and it may have been her child that she and William could have adopted? There are so many variables and the answers just seem to be getting harder and harder...

I'd better go now as I have 2 weeks washing to catch up on! I'm sorry I couldn't be of much help, but I truly thank you all for the help you have given me.

Cheers.

Joy :-)

This is probably her?

1891 Scotland Census
about Maggie Little
Name: Maggie Little
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relationship: Serv (Servant)
Gender: Female
Where born: Canonbie, Dumfriesshire
Registration Number: 789
Registration district: Hawick
Civil parish: Hawick
County: Roxburghshire
Address: 16 High St
Occupation: House Keeper
ED: 7
Household schedule number: 20
Line: 7
Roll: CSSCT1891_384
Household Members: Name Age
Geo Brydon 31
Helen Brydon 30
James Brydon 2
Bella Douglas 16
Maggie Little 35


Source Citation: Parish: Hawick; ED: 7; Page: 4; Line: 7; Roll CSSCT1891_384; Year: 1891.

Dea x

Not at the moment Ginny.

I have her in Scotland 1881 but I'm still looking for her on 1891.

Dea x

Dea

Can you see Margaret on the 1891, I cant!

x

Have a good sleep Joy - hope you feel a bit better in the morning !!

When you come back could you tell us what else you know about Mary - I am trying to 'come at it' from a different direction.

Do you know if she married and if so, who to? Also do you know when and where she died?

Dea x

Back Again....

Wayne - Margaret was a "Spinster" on her Marr. Cert., although that wouldn't make any difference if she'd had children or not I presume?

Re. List of Mary Vevers born in Scotland. Margaret Little was born in Cannonbie, Dumfries, but the date for the Mary Vevers born in Cannonbie is1884 and as Margaret didn't get married until 15/8/1896, the child wouldn't be called Vevers anyway?

Ginny - Re. the Baby born in Cumberland. There was a whole lot of Vevers living in Cumberland - and I think there still are. That's where William originally came from, as did Bridget Tarpey, his first wife.

Rose - Sorry I don't have a Death Cert. for Margaret Little, only know she died in the 1st Qtr 1930.

Wayne - The only info. I have on Margaret Little is that she was born 28/3/1856 in Canonbie, Dumfries and that her parents were John Little b. 18/6/1821 and Mary Johnstone - no birth date.

Once again a really big THANK YOU to you all for putting yourselvesout for me, I really do appreciate it and if I've inadvertently missed thanking anyone please forgive me.

Cheers

Joy :-) Who's now going to "dope myself up" some more and go to bed, even thought it's not 7pm yet!!

Thank you all for your postings. It's 5.45pm here in NZ, so whilst I was asleep it seems you've all been extremely busy. Normally I would have been on the Comp. earlier in the day, but since my husband & I got back from our holiday we've been hit with a very nasty Flu, so I'm sorry If you think I've been a bit negletful. I really do appreciate all of your help.

Dea - Yes, Samuel Lee was a Gas Stoker.

Rose - Re. William & Sarah. Definitely not Sarah, and Toward would have been James Toward Vevers if he was my Grandfather.

Dea - the 1861 census was corect. Also Smith "Kirpin/Tirpin" was also correct. although the correct name was Tarpey. I have his daughter Ellen's (Eleanor), Birth Cert with his correct name on it, plus his Death Cert too.

Just a thought, couldn't Mary still have been born in 1901 after the Census was taken in March 31st?

I am going to send what I have written up to now as I keep losing what I have typed when I go back to look up a page that I need to reply to, so if you get a few pages with my replies on please bear with me..

Cheers
Joy :-)

We need to find Margaret Little in 1891 before her marriage to William.

I do think the answer lies there.... maybe her daughter died in childbirth?

We also need some input from the poster !!


T x

No sign of a marriage or death for Mary in the Newcastle area.

Margaret died in 1930. I wonder who the informant was?

Rose

I wonder if she was in hospital or more likely being 'wet nursed' ...if her mom was Margaret then she may have been too old to breast feed

..and there was no SMA around in those days!


Trace, you may well be right about another name on 1901

x

1 born alive 1 still living.

T x

Out of interest, what does it say in the columns "children born alive to present marriage" in 1911?

Rose

That birth has been ruled out Tracey!!

Dea Xxx

I personally think Mary Vevers is on the 1901 census as Mary something else!


Tracey x