Find Ancestors

no i havent deleted the threads, but then again i am not sure whether i am doing this right, so maybe i could have.

i have just looked at my threads and it was 15 january when i asked about sarah jane

Well, you should have continued that thread. I am afraid we are probably doing all over what has been done before?

The Plesances in 1881 . . . Elizabeth is 59 and Sarah Jane is 8 so it maybe is not likely that this Sarah Jane is really the daughter of Elizabeth there. I wonder whether Sarah Jane was the daughter of a child of George and Sarah, since that Sarah was already 40 (maybe at least) in 1871 and her youngest cihld Emily was born 10 years before Sarah Jane.



yes
http://www.genesreunited.com.au/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1198579

Sarah's daughter (so did not marry?):
Births Dec 1893
Pleasant Alice Mary Thorne 9c 820

Patricia you will want to look at the thread I just posted because it is about Alice Mary who apparently married as a Ramsey.
edit . . . I'm sorry, Sarah Jane married as a Ramsey.

Marriages Jun 1906
Astley John Sheffield 9c 975
Ramsey Sarah Jane Sheffield 9c 975

It is really too confusing and unnecessary and not quite fair to have different threads.

Marie did you ever answer the question of what Sarah Jane said for her father's name on her marriage certificate?

In 1861 the Pheasant household from 1871 on page 1 of the thread, note William Cundall, that is the surname of Sarah Ellen.

George Pheasant 39
Sarah E Pheasant 29
Alfred W Pheasant 8
Charles H Pheasant 6
Annie E Pheasant 2
William Crapper 21
William Cundall 18
John Tooms 15
Hannah Smith 19

I am so confused. I will re look at your answers tomorrow and try and work this out, Thanks for helping.

Just to let you know that on my grandmas marriage certificate (not her birth certificate) it states that her father is a william ramsey deceased.
Also on her mothers marriage certificate (sarah Jane) it states her father as a william ramsey deceased. HELP

Marie, can you explain again why you are looking for a Sarah Jane Pleasant when your great-grandmother married as Sarah Jane Ramsey and said her father was William Ramsey?

Oh yes because Mary Alice was born Pleasant, but do you have the certificate and it says Sarah Jane Pleasant for mother?

And now I am not understanding why a child of Sarah Jane Ramsey and John Astley (your grandmother) said her father was William Ramsey. What does her birth certificate say?

Or no, she was born before the Astley marrage
Births Dec 1893
Pleasant Alice Mary Thorne 9c 820

but what does her birth certificate say?

and . . . where are they in 1901? Are these people interesting in 1901?

John Welsh 35
Sarah J Welsh 29 born in Crowle
Alice M Welsh 7 born in Crowle
Civil parish: Great Grimsby

there is no marriage for that couple and no birth for that Alice M

Oh I think this could be interesting, take the Elizabeth Plesance from 1881 and look at her in 1871 and here she is in a household with Ramsays

Name: Elizabeth Pleasent
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Narford, Norfolk, England
Civil parish: Crowle
Town: Crowle
County/Island: Lincolnshire

John Ramsay 60
Sarah Ramsay 64
Richard Warden 39
John Odnot 43
Charles Mann 29
Elizabeth Pleasent 39
Mary Ann Pleasent 9
Betsy Pleasent 12
George Alcock 40

John Ramsey is a farmer, his wife is a lodging house keeper, Elizabeth Pleasent is a widow with no occupation shown.


The Ramseys had a son named William in their household in 1851

Name: William Ramsey
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1835
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Thorne, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Crowle
County/Island: Lincolnshire

John Ramsey 40
Sarah Ramsey 44
Thomas Ramsey 20 >>> see the 1871 census below
Harriet Ramsey 18
William Ramsey 16
James Ramsey 12
Sarah Ann Ramsey 11
Mary Ann Ramsey 6
John Colbridge 2
Henry Bell 35

He was William Henry Ramsey and he married Mary Coward? in 1856.
But this is a better William Henry Ramsey, in 1881, he married Ann Maria Oldfield in 1880.

Name: William H. Ramsey
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Ann M.
Gender: Male
Where born: Crowle, Lincoln, England

Civil parish: West Stockwith
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Registration district: Gainsborough

William H. Ramsey 24
Ann M. Ramsey 21
Harriete A. Ramsey
George Lee 18


I will bet my farm that I don't have that he was Sarah Jane Pleasant's father, when he was very young. Now what did her birth certificate say, again? . . . George Pleasant and Sarah Thorp. (and Marie it does not make sense to ask for help and then say "not yet" you haven't looked for a marriage) There is no such marriage, there are no such people, there are Thorpes in Thorne disctrict but not Thorps. Who registered the birth Marie, the mother, and what was the father's occupation?


1871

Name: William Henry Ramsey
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Harriett
Gender: Male
Where born: Crowle, Lincolnshire, England
Civil parish: Crowle
Town: Crowle
County/Island: Lincolnshire
Country: England
Registration district: Thorne

Thomas Ramsey 40 >>> see the 1851 census son of John and Sarah
Harriett Ramsey 38
William Henry Ramsey 14

Oh my, forgive me, but from all my searching through people with names Pleas* in Norfolk in 1861, I have earned this I think lol

Name: Christmas Pleasants
Age: 31
and his wife
Name: Esther Pleasants
Age: 29
and I wonder whether they had children named for every other gift-giving occasion . . .


Marriages Dec 1885
Haller Mary Ann Thorne 9c 1030
Lockwood John Thorne 9c 1030
PLEASANT Mary Ann Thorne 9c 1030 <<<
WEBSTER Robert Thorne 9c 1030


I have hoped to find that Elizabeth Pleasant/Plesance from Norfolk who lodged with Ramseys had a daughter Sarah (or even a son George) who could be the mother (or father) of Sarah Jane

But I cant find her in 1861 to save my life. That is the only Ple* marriage in Thorne district 1875 to 1890. Elizabeth died in 1884

Deaths Sep 1884
Pleasant Elizabeth 60 Thorne 9c 493

Her age varies a lot in the records but I think it makes sense that she was the grandmother of Sarah Jane Pleasant one way or another.

What a lovely time you've had with the Pleasantses.

Well done,

Ozi.

On Sarah Janes birth certificate it shows no father, her mother registered the birth (the mark of Sarah Pleasant, mother, Crowle). It also shows Sarah Pleasant formerly Thorp.

On My grandmothers birth certificate Alice Mary, again it shows no father, and her mother registered the birth (Sarah Jane Pleasant, mother, Union Workhouse, Thorne).

It only shows father as William Ramsey on both their marriage certificates. Also it shows william ramsey as a farm carter on my grandmas marriage cert, and a labourer on sarah janes marriage cert.

any thoughts at all on all of the things I posted and all of the time I spent finding it?

note
I posted the death details that seem to be Elizabeth Pleasant/Plesance from the earlier census because it could be worth seeing who registered the death, it could possibly be Sarah Jane

and here's what I left out of William H Ramsey in 1881

Name: William H. Ramsey
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Ann M.
Gender: Male
Where born: Crowle, Lincoln, England

Occupation: Waggoner (Ag Lab) <<<<<<<

Civil parish: West Stockwith
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Registration district: Gainsborough

William H. Ramsey 24
Ann M. Ramsey 21
Harriete A. Ramsey
George Lee 18



that is a lot of coincidence, lol

bruce and all the other people who have helped, a big thank you to you all, i appreciate all the hard work you have put in. I just find it very difficult to understand what you are finding. Also with regards to the two separate postings, i did not know you could go back to the first one and add to it. I am v ery sorry if i have wasted some of your time.

Marie, what you have to do is read through it all slowly, lol

There is an Elizabeth Plesance in 1881 with a Sarah Jane who is called her daughter, I think she might really be her granddaughter.

That must be the same Elizabeth Pleasant who is living with people named Ramsey in 1871 also in Crowle.

Those Ramseys had a son Thomas who had a son William Henry Ramsey, that William Ramsey married in 1880 and was a Waggonner in 1881

There is just too much connection between that Elizabeth and those Ramseys for it to look like it is just a coincidence with the name on your girls' marriage certificates don't you think?

The problem is that we still havent found a George Pleasant or a Sarah Thorp anywhere but it is always possible that these were madeup names, the mother could have been a Sarah Pleasant unmarried pretending that was her married name for instance.

You know I also might just wonder whether that Sarah Jane Pleasant birth certificate is really your girl anyway

I would be really intrested to see what the marriage certificate of Mary Ann Pleasant who was the daughter of Elizabeth in 1871 and 1881 said for her father's name, it would be nice to know who Elizabeth's husband was if she had one, to try to find the family in 1861 for one thing. our Sarah Jane's mother or father could be a sister or brother of Mary Ann that we just haven't found yet.

I will send for the marriage certificate, could you recommend where to get it from, as all my other certificates were from Sheffield Registy Office at £7 each. I have ordered a couple on line which were not from Sheffield but they cost around £20.

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

Prices have gone up but not to £20, that sounds like what some private company charges and you never want to pay them (Ancestry for example), the gro will always be the best deal.

It is always nice to hear when somebody decides to follow up on something, no guarantees that certificate will help but sometimes you just have to take a chance. It will be very interesting to see whether it says something that might get you one little step farther !

You can order online from the General Register Office,
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
for £9.25

thanks, i will order one now. I will let you know the outcome when i receive it.