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Ok , what we know so far ( and i have paperwork for )...

He was married under the name of Charles Flynne in 1912 to Jane Whiteford ( Both living at Hagg Cottacges , Wylam ) and they are listed as 29 & 19 ( his age of 29 seems to be incorrect ) and his Father is listed as Charles Flynne also . He dies in 1956 age is give as 78.


Now the guesswork ....

His remaining Children both say ( indipendantly ) that he was born in 1877/78 and that he had brothers / sisters in Askam in Furness ( Cumbria ) - they can remember visiting them.

With the information you have provided ( thank you again ) we can see that there is a FLINN family in the Workington Area in 1891 that correspond to the correct ages / father and sibling names , so i have to assume that this is the family in question. I can follow the family in the 1901 Census , but Charles Jnr vanishes ( i have since found out that he did a spell in the Army and also in Barlinnie jail - this information was provided by his daughter as she can recall several photo's of her father in an Army Uniform and can recall him speaking about his spell in Prison ( this could explain why i cant seem to find him in 1901/ 1911) )

Would it be likely that his name change occured because of the way the Army listed him or to cover up the fact he had been in prison ?

I have looked at the information provided by people on here , and he could be one of may ! If the Workington link is correct , im now looking at Charles being a Border in 1901 / 1911

What we have found out however , that another FLINN family ( with a father called Charles ( but no sone with the same name ) lived in the Bywell area of Northumberland ( this is about 3 miles from Wylam where Charles/Jane were livingin 1912 ) in 1891 and that family also have links to Workington .

To add to this confusion , i have been speaking to his Daughter and she has dropped the bombshell that his brothers / sisters in Cumbria may not have been so ! ... she recals going to a funeral across there with her sister and they were informed by one of Charles' sisters that he wasn't actually their brother , but was from another branch of the family that they were raising - but we have no way of knowing if this is true .

This is how it stands at the moment , i have been provided with a wealth of information , i just need to try and work out a possible link between it all and have a guess what Charles was up to during his "missing" years.

Jon

Some feedback on the above would be welcome too.
Jan

Well have you actually looked at what I posted? not that its any different from what you already had

jax

Jax ,

i asked because im confused and needed as much help as possible ... i never realised that tracking 1 person was such a nightmare !

None of the Flynne's seem to match him with a father called Charles ( as well ) but the Flinn's do - but he vanishes after 1891 ... we have been advise by his surviving 2 children that his family were living in workington and were from that area . but i just cant seem to track him until 1912 and even then , the age on his Marriage Cert seems to be wrong and his name is different..... and so im just trying get get as much information as possible to put together a workable guess as to who he is and where he was from.

Jon

I see you have a thread about this man...why did you ask me when you have all this info?

jax

Above Charles 1901:

1901 England Census

Name: Charles Flyn
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1881
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Worthington, Cumberland, England

Civil parish: Middlesbrough
Ecclesiastical parish: Linthorpe St Barnabas
Town: Middlesbrough
County/Island: Yorkshire

Registration district: Middlesbrough
Sub-registration district: Middlesbrough

Robert Lawman 28
Mary J Lawman 28
Willey M Lawman 4
George Lawman 2
Charles Flyn 20

Have we had this one 1911?

FLYNN, Charles Single M 36 1875 Dock Labourer Workington Cumberland VIEW
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
29264 Reference:
RG14PN29264 RD535 SD3 ED1 SN274

Registration District:
Middlesbrough Sub District:
Middlesbrough West Enumeration District:
1 Parish:

Address:
1 Snowdon Road Middlesbrough County:
Yorkshire (North riding)

Hi Jan ,

father's name and occupation
Charles Flynne - Blastfurnaceman
Charles' occupation
Coal Miner
address
Hagg Cottages , Wylam
( both him and wife Jane Whiteford )
witnesses
Whiteford & Highmoore ( both Janes Side of the family )

The family "knowlage" matches up with your original findings as teh Flinn family in Workington , Cumbria and i can find Charles in the 1891 Census but then he vanishes ... he turns up again as Charles Flynne in 1912

I have spoken to his daughter and she can remember a photograph of him in Army Uniform ( peaked cap and Puttee's on his legs with buckles - infantry ? ) as he used to talk about cleaning them when he was drunk and he also spoke ( when he was drunk ) of his time in Barlinnie Prison ( Scotland is the only one i can find ) but no one knows how long he spent there or why .

If he was in the army / clink .. would he still show on a census as that could be why i cant seem to find gim in 1901 ( but we can find the rest of his family in Cumbria )

so if they dont need his Birth Cert for Marriage / Death , it looks like someone has just guessed his age ...

What about the other information on the cert? Namely:

father's name and occupation
Charles' occupation
address
witnesses

Birth cert not necessary for marriage or death cert. Who registered the death? Maybe they weren't sure of his age.

Jan

now i am well confused .......

His marriage cert shows he was 29 when he married in 1912 and living in Hagg Cottages , Wylam

We have a copy of his Death cert showing him at 78 in 1956 in the Royal Victoria Infirmery , Newcastle

the math just dont add up !! ... which one is likely to be correct ?

If his Death Cert is correct ,the i can find him in 1891 in Cumbria ( as per BrummieJans Post ) if the Marriage Cert is correct , i cant really find him ...

Why would there be such an age gap ? ... would he need his Birth Cert to completer his Marriage / Death cert ?

The Marraige Cert has arrived ...and it shows his father as Charles also ... so now i know which direction to start looking ....


Thanks for all of your help :)

I ordered it from the GRO site ... but it did give a despatch date of the middle of next week .... its silly , but im a little excited.

Charles & Jane's kids .. i have them all ( Margaret 1912, Hannah 1914, Mary 1916, Charles 1920,Fenwick 1921,James 1923,Anne 1926,Joyce 1929,Shiela 1930(ish) )

It was James that can remember visiting Relations in Askam in Furness with his father and their names , and he can recall his grandparents visiting , but he only saw them the once and was very young at the time and neither he nor Joyce ( the 2 remaining children ) know their names or have any documents ( what paperwork / photo's they that had were destroyed by Charles (Jnr ) after his parents had passed away.

If you are in the UK certs shouldn't take more than a week to arrive - they were very slow for a while just before the price went up but hopefully back to normal now! let us know how you get on.
Jan

jon...Depends on where you ordered it from...anything up to 6 weeks.
Do you have the names of any of the children of Chas.and Jane...
What Rel.where they..?

have just spent £10 of my hard earned cash on their Marriage Cert ... lets see what that tells me ... and then we might have a better idea ... how long do these things normally take ?

jon...Charles (Cockermouth ) 1st marriage

Registered June 1873.
Flinn Charles Cockermouth 10b 1006
Rice Margaret Cockermouth 10b 1006

jon...The Ann Featherstonehaugh marrying Charles ...was b Denton Cumberland and the daughter of a Methodist Minister...This does not fit with the 1911 Census of Mary "Flynn" W.b Co Monaghan living with son Charles b 1877(Coal miner) living in Benwell....
My money is on that connection at the moment.

jon....Charles' 2nd Marriage.

Marriages Dec 1884 (>99%)
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FEATHERSTONHAUGH Ann M Cockermouth 10b 888
FLINN Charles Cockermouth 10b 888

jon....? Death Charles (1881 Census) wife...

Deaths Sep 1880 (>99%)
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Flinn Margaret 26 Cockermouth 10b 347

Jon...If you are assuming that the Maryport (1891) family is yours then note that this is Charles snr's 2nd Marriage...(look at Ann's age and gap between children following Charles (b 1877)...
On that assumption I have cross ref this and found the following...

Household Record 1881 British Census

Search results | Download Previous Household Next Household


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Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Helen FLYNN Head M Female 54 Ireland
Chas. FLYNN Son W Male 30 Harrington, Cumberland, England Sailor
Helen FLYNN Gd Daur Female 6 Workington, Cumberland, England Scholar
*Chas. FLYNN* Gd Son Male 3 Maryport, Cumberland, England
Ann R. FLYNN Gd Daur Female 4 Workington, Cumberland, England


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Source Information:
Dwelling 4 Old Iron Wks
Census Place Seaton, Cumberland, England
Family History Library Film 1342248
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 5175 / 66
Page Number 55