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Person: SCHWARTZ, Ernest
Address: 16, Gordon Street, St Pancras
SCHWARTZ, Theodor Head Married M 61 1840 Hotel Employe Carver
Switzerland VIEW
SCHWARTZ, Regina Wife Married F 53 1848
Switzerland VIEW
SCHWARTZ, Annie Daughter Single F 26 1875
Switzerland VIEW
SCHWARTZ, Ernest Son Single M 23 1878 Relief Stamper
Switzerland VIEW
SCHWARTZ, Elise Daughter Single F 22 1879 Milliner
Switzerland VIEW
BROWN, Rose Servant Single F 25 1876 Cook (Domestic)
England VIEW
BATERVANTUDAIRE, Charles Boarder Single M 24 1877 Student At Law
Ceylon VIEW
WIJSYSKOORE, Gerard Boarder Single M 22 1879 Student At Law
Ceylon VIEW
KETTLE, George W Boarder Single M 25 1876 Advertisement Expert
England VIEW
FRALICK, Draper E Boarder Married M 34 1867 Journalist
Canada VIEW
ROSSITER, John Boarder Married M 47 1854 Flour Salesman
Paignton
Devonshire VIEW
ROSSITER, Sarah A Boarder Married F 42 1859 Wife
London VIEW
BARNES, Edward Boarder Single M 28 1873 Private Secretary (Gent)
London

1891 census - household transcription
Person: SCHWARZ, Ernest
Address: 5, Bedfordbury, St Martin In The Fields, London

SCHWARZ, Theodor Head Married M 51 1840 Carver
Argoore
Switzerland British Subject VIEW
SCHWARZ, Regina Wife Married F 43 1848 Shirt & Collar Dresser
Lucerne
Switzerland VIEW
SCHWARZ, Anna Daughter Single F 16 1875 Clerk Press Cutting Agency
Argoore
Switzerland VIEW
SCHWARZ, Ernest Son M 13 1878
Argoore
Switzerland VIEW
SCHWARZ, Eliza Daughter F 12 1879
Grisons
Switzerland VIEW
CANDRIOM, Henrich Lodger Single M 23 1868 Porter
Berne
Switzerland VIEW
BURGER, Albert Lodger Single M 30 1861 Hotel Secretary
Argoore
Switzerland VIEW
REY, John Lodger Single M 30 1861 Porter
Grissons
Switzerland VIEW
GRASS, Peter Lodger Single M 25 1866 Porter
Argoore
Switzerland VIEW
STOFFELS, Y Lodger Single M 25 1866 Cuisinier
Holland VIEW
AUGUSTE, Cureh W Lodger Single M 22 1869 Artist
Paul Lausanne
Switzerland

LK - we're not actually looking to trace Mr Schwarz's ancestry, are we? ;)

I don't see any outgoing passengers after 1911 that leap to the eye as being them (as Schwarz or Black), but Black's a pretty common name ...

JC
I was using him as a reference to see if I could Rose Ann in other documents. The 1901 shows Rose with his family before their marriage.

Indeed, there she is! Unfortunately, they don't seem to have married because they needed to. If they had, we might have descendants.

Guess you're back to hunting up the other sibs!

Query though -- what is Eve's own relationship to Vincent Brown?

If you're descended from one of Vincent's siblings, Eve, there's not much point in hunting up your ancestor. ;)

Having heard about this pretty impressive piece of detective work, I have to say - yep......I'm impressed but poor Eve must be mightily confused by now.

Eve, just ask if there is anything you would like explaining more fully, then please just ask...and I am sure someone will go through it with you.


Black/Schwartz/Brown.............sheesh!

A pat on the back for the amazing duo.

Vincent Brown is the brother of Eve's Grandfather Albert. So no need to research Albert.

That looks like a good possibility for Annie as Schwartz. I wonder if her husband's whole family changed their surname?

I don't think it's a possibility for Annie, I think it's a certainty. ;)

She was born Rose Annie BrownE in Bildeston, she was called Annie, she married Mr Schwarz, and sometime between 1911 and 1918 (when Vincent was conscripted, I think it was) they changed their name to the English equivalent. Unfortunately for Eve, they don't seem to have had kids.

So where's Eve??

Hi JaneyCanuck
Well you have all been very busy I have read your transcrips several times over, The Annie mistery seems to be resolved now ,shame theres no children. I can understand why they changed their name from Schwarz to Black.Imust congratulate you all well done, So if you are able to find out more I will be elated, I am viewing all the info; you send I am not always sure when to ADD. Another
thing, my grandmothers side of the family had connections
in Canada, I emailed a relie; from Suffolk, will send. Eve

Yeah, eh?! All that to figure out who she was, and then no kids! Blast 'er eyes. ;)

Before anybody starts hunting down descendants of Vincent's other siblings, do you know anything about any of them besides Albert?

I have got to get some work done today myself, but I'm sure LK will be on the trail. ;)

Odds are probably slim that anybody living in England now knows anything about Vincent. My mum's parents immigrated to Canada as children, and when I've contacted relations of her father in England through GR (descended from his mother's brother, for instance), I've got "wellll, I don't think so ..." as the first response, because they knew nothing about us here in Canada. ;)

I am deleting some of the irelevant posts to keep things clear. I am not deleting anything useful to you.

1911 census - household transcription
Person: BROWN, Bessie
Address: 20 Portland Court Great Portland St St Marylebone W

KILLBY, James Head Married M 77 1834 Commission Meat Salesman Wholesale London Aldgate VIEW
KILLBY, Ann Wife Married
49 years F 72 1839 London Clerkenwell VIEW
KILLBY, Stanley James Son Single M 41 1870 Actor London Bloomsbury VIEW
KILLBY, Leonard Gibbs Son Single M 28 1883 Assistant Secreatary Dept Of Technology City Guilds Of London Institute London Stamford Hill VIEW
BAKER, Muriel Mary Servant Single F 26 1885 Cook Domestic London Camberwell VIEW
BROWN, Bessie Servant Single F 20 1891 Housemaid Domestic Glemsford Suffolk


Bessie and Ethel are on
Reginald George Kemp Tree

at Ancestry.

possible
Births Mar 1873 (>99%)
Brown Julia Sudbury 4a 518


1891 census - household transcription
Person: BROWN, Julia
Address: Hants Hill, Glemsford
BROWN, David Head Married M 68 1823 Hawker
Glemsford
Suffolk VIEW
BROWN, Charlotte Wife Married F 66 1825
Halstead
Essex VIEW
BROWN, Charlotte Daughter Single F 21 1870 Silk Weaver
Glemsford
Suffolk VIEW
BROWN, Julia Lodger Single F 18 1873 Silk Weaver
Bildeston
Suffolk

1901 census - household transcription
Person: HARTLEY, Ambrose
Address: Tye Green, Glemsford
HARTLEY, Ambrose Head Married M 28 1873 Factory Labourer
Glemsford
Suffolk VIEW
HARTLEY, Julia Wife Married F 29 1872
Bildestone
Suffolk VIEW
HARTLEY, Percy Brown Son M 5 1896
Glemsford
Suffolk VIEW
HARTLEY, Bessie Daughter F 3 1898
Glemsford
Suffolk VIEW
HARTLEY, Willie Son M 0 (7 MOS) 1901
Glemsford
Suffolk

1911 census - household transcription
Person: HARTLEY, Ambrose
Address: Churchgate Glemsford Suffolk
HARTLEY, Ambrose Head Married M 39 1872 Fram Labourer Suffolk Glemsford VIEW
HARTLEY, Julia Wife Married
13 years F 40 1871 Charwoman Suffolk Bildeston VIEW
BROWN, Percy Son Single M 15 1896 Hairdrawer Suffolk Glemsford VIEW
HARTLEY, Bessie Daughter Single F 13 1898 Hairdrawer Suffolk Glemsford VIEW
HARTLEY, Willie Son Single M 10 1901 School Boy Suffolk Glemsford VIEW
HARTLEY, Lily Daughter Single F 7 1904 School Girl Suffolk Glemsford VIEW
HARTLEY, George Son Single M 4 1907 School Boy Suffolk Glemsford VIEW
HARTLEY, Annie Daughter F 0 (3 MONTHS) 1911 Suffolk Glemsford

Births Sep 1914 (>99%)

Hartley Albert Brown Sudbury 4a 1781

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1921 (>99%)
Hartley Clement Brown Sudbury 4a 1721

1891 census - household transcription
Person: BROWN, Kate
Address: Tye Green, Glemsford
WEBB, Mary Head Widow F 77 1814 Annuitant
London
Middlesex VIEW
BROWN, Kate Servant Single F 17 1874 Servant Domestic
Bildeston
Suffolk

http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Suffolk/Glemsford.html

You will find this interesting

Hi LadyKira
Hope you dont mind if I but in, most of the Browns left Suffolk for pastures new,they had a very large family nice to view resent cencus, my relis; before me. Ihavnt heard yet
of my granies side info;regards the names of the Mitchell
family from Ontario /Vancouver. Also the Richardson, also Morris family went from Middlesex in the 1900s, they are
in the tree somewere. The Browns and Wordleys--granies
family were all neighbours, Albert went to Canada with Vincent, sorry if this is jumbled. Eve

It is a bit jumbled.
can you set it out more clearly and also what you want to find out?
Give as much detail re names dates ad places as you can.

HI LadyKira
My granie Lily Wordley married Albert Brown, Allbert went to Canada 1912, with brother Vincent, I know this is a long shot but --- on the Wordley tree. A Charles Richardson 1845-from Westminster, Middlesex, .place of death--Vancouver Canada 1895, he married Maria Morris born
1845 died 1937. their marrage was Waterloo, Surrey
1866. several children born in Ontario/ Vancouver, also the name of Mitchell.Dont know if this is usfull,
Eve

HI LadyKira
Have you any more updates please?
Regards Eve

I am sorry but I still do not understand your request. Are these all one family?