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JC I do try to do a certain amont of editing but the box is so small and I cannot see beyond the first line or two. I cannot see that taking the word View out is going to help anyone.

Births Mar 1852 (>99%)
HARGREAVES John Price Wirral 8a 394

Frances Hargreaves does not appear on any other census.

Linda, it's so nice of you to try to be related to me! ;)

My Littlers are from Cheshire in the early 1900s, and my own relocated to Leicestershire and then Nottinghhamshire, and then Canada. In my direct line there is no Eleanor, and I don't know of any sibling Eleanor to any of my directs.

A date or two would have been most helpful here I must say. I don't think I can deduce it because, at least as I'm understanding it, she was born Eleanor Littler, married Mr X and then married Mr Whitley. Without the X, I'm lost. No Littler-Whitley marriage so Littler must have been her birth name.

There are Eleanor Littler marriages in West Derby in 1894, Leigh in 1897, Aston in 1901, Manchester in 1935 and Bootle in 1937. Gotta be one of them?

There is a batch of Littlers in Wales through the 19th century censuses.


This Isabella in 1871? (she's Isabella Mary in a later census)

Thomas Whitley 39
Ann C Whitley 28
> Isabella S Whitley 6
Kate S Whitley 5
John J Whitley 3
> Thomas Whitley 3 months
Ellen Crooke 29
Mary A Musgrove 17
Elizabeth Newlon 28

in Newton, Lancashire.

Births Dec 1864
Whitley Isabella Mary Warrington 8c 122

I can only see her again in 1891 but the mother is still Ann Catherine, and Robert Davies had died by then.

I need one more puzzle piece before I can figure out who owned the giraffe!



LadyKira -- check this out. I'm going to put it here temporarily (and will delete it) in the hope of encouraging you ...


1901 census - household transcription
Person: HARGREAVES, John P
Address: 3, Waterford Road, Birkenhead

HARGREAVES, John P Head Married M 49 1852 Stockbroker Birkenhead Cheshire
HARGREAVES, Catherine G Wife Married F 47 1854 Whitechurch Co Dublin
HARGREAVES, Jahn A Son Single M 22 1879 Undergraduate Birkenhead Cheshire
HARGREAVES, Annie B Daughter Single F 19 1882 Birkenhead Cheshire
HARGREAVES, William F C Son Single M 18 1883 Birkenhead Cheshire
HARGREAVES, Alfred R Son Single M 17 1884 Birkenhead Cheshire
HARGREAVES, Mary K Daughter Single F 12 1889 Birkenhead Cheshire
HARGREAVES, Herbert P Son Single M 10 1891 Birkenhead Cheshire
GIBBS, Constance M Visitor Single F 38 1863 Edgbaston Warwickshire
JOHNSON, Wilfred H C Visitor Single M 22 1879 Undergraduate Pulloxhill Bedfordshire
BIRKS, Elizabeth Servant Single F 23 1878 Cook Domestic Buckley Flintshire
HUGHES, Elizabeth Servant Single F 23 1878 Housemaid omestic Amlwch Anglesey
FORSHAW, Lilian Servant Single F 27 1874 Housemaid Domestic Bebington Cheshire
SLEE, Harriet Servant Single F 15 1886 Kitchenmaid Domestic Birkenhead Cheshire

See how neat and easy to read ...


(edit -- it isn't taking the word "View" out, although I did -- it's condensing each person onto one line instead of three, which means you can see them all at once without scrolling, and just tightens the thread up. Get three censuses on a page the other way, and it becomes a monster ...)

Nothing to link with Percy or Frances yet

1901 census - household transcription
Person: HARGREAVES, John P
Address: 3, Waterford Road, Birkenhead

HARGREAVES, John P Head Married M 49 1852 Stockbroker
Birkenhead
Cheshire VIEW
HARGREAVES, Catherine G Wife Married F 47 1854
Whitechurch Co Dublin VIEW
HARGREAVES, Jahn A Son Single M 22 1879 Undergraduate
Birkenhead
Cheshire VIEW
HARGREAVES, Annie B Daughter Single F 19 1882
Birkenhead
Cheshire VIEW
HARGREAVES, William F C Son Single M 18 1883
Birkenhead
Cheshire VIEW
HARGREAVES, Alfred R Son Single M 17 1884
Birkenhead
Cheshire VIEW
HARGREAVES, Mary K Daughter Single F 12 1889
Birkenhead
Cheshire VIEW
HARGREAVES, Herbert P Son Single M 10 1891
Birkenhead
Cheshire VIEW
GIBBS, Constance M Visitor Single F 38 1863
Edgbaston
Warwickshire VIEW
JOHNSON, Wilfred H C Visitor Single M 22 1879 Undergraduate
Pulloxhill
Bedfordshire VIEW
BIRKS, Elizabeth Servant Single F 23 1878 Cook Domestic
Buckley
Flintshire VIEW
HUGHES, Elizabeth Servant Single F 23 1878 Housemaid Domestic
Amlwch
Anglesey VIEW
FORSHAW, Lilian Servant Single F 27 1874 Housemaid Domestic
Bebington
Cheshire VIEW
SLEE, Harriet Servant Single F 15 1886 Kitchenmaid Domestic
Birkenhead
Cheshire

1911 census - household transcription
Person: HARGREAVES, John Price
Address: Oxton Birkenhead
HARGREAVES, John Price Head Married M 59 1852 Stockbroker Cheshire Birkenhead VIEW
HARGREAVES, Catharine Georgina Wife Married
33 years F 57 1854 Dublin Whitechurch VIEW
HARGREAVES, Henry Cecil Son Single M 30 1881 Stockbroker Cheshire Birkenhead VIEW
HARGREAVES, William Francis Carlile Son Single M 28 1883 Stockbroker Cheshire Birkenhead VIEW
HARGREAVES, Mary Kathleen Daughter Single F 22 1889 Cheshire Birkenhead VIEW
HARGREAVES, Herbert Price Son Single M 20 1891 Cheshire Birkenhead VIEW
JEWSON, John Christopher Visitor Single M 21 1890 None Private Means Norwich Norfolk VIEW
RALPH, May Single F 25 1886 Waitress Liverpool Lancashire VIEW
NIXON, Evelyn Single F 19 1892 Servant Cheshire Crave

I wonder if this is the one in the will?

1861 England Census
about John Price Hargreaves
Name: John Price Hargreaves
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Mary Jane
Gender: Male
Where born: Birkenhead, Cheshire, England


Registration district: Birkenhead

Henry Hargreaves 44
Mary Jane Hargreaves 41
Ann Price Hargreaves 14
Jane Price Hargreaves 12
John Price Hargreaves 9
Elizabeth Price 37
Jane Rothwell 31
Caroline Glass 2 wk
Sarah Robert 16

There is a clue in the will you sent Linda

I bequeath to each of them, the said John Price Hargreaves and Withur Hargreaves who shall prove my will and accept the Trusteeship thereof the sum of THREE HUNDRED POUNDS.

Hi Janey
You know you said you have Littler's in your tree. Tell me, do you have an Eleanor Littler who remarried and became Eleanor Littler Whitley and had children Isabella Mary Whitley and Thomas Whitley?
Clutching at straws but they were in Robert Davies's will, but not as relatives.
Linda

Ladykira alerted me to this cos I have a John Davies from Llanasa born c 1840, but I cannot trace him firmly with his supposed father Peter, a Quarryman, until he pitches up in Glossop, Derbyshire in 1881. He marries Margaret Fish nee Duxbury in 1890 after having three children with her prior to that, and says he is a widower.

So if anyone happens to find him, I'd be thrilled.

The Hawarden office's best choice was father Peter, mother Ann Vaughan.

So, I don't think he's connected to Robert Davies, which is a pity cos he left money to a cats' home.

I'll see if I can help on here though.

I have found Frances Thompson /Whitaker now and I noticed the problem with dates. Maybe it was reversed on one document. Still looking at that.

I followed Percy as hargreaves through the other censuses.

Hi LadyKira
Have another look at the 1881 census as Margaret is the wife of a master mariner and richard is a sayer or joiner.
Also not sure why Frances was listed as a Hargreaves. She's not mentioned in Robert's will only her children of which there is a Frances Ellen Whitaker.
.
I found on UKBMD a Frances Ellen Thompson b1867 Eastham Cheshire West EAS/17/16. Frances Davies was also known as Fanny in the 1851 census records.

Of course this doesn't help in one of the other records you found a Fanny but I think that would have made her born in 1876 not 1867, I'm confused.

Just looked at the 1861 census records and I wonder if the person taking the census just used the ditto under the name Hargreaves without really meaning Hargreaves, I think he meant Thompson.

Linda

So we have mariage of Frances Davies 1861

but frances hargreaves listed as wife in 1871
with a 6year old also a Hargreaves.

but using Thompson 1881.

2 Fanny's? but no second marriage?

There is no marriage to a Frances Hargreaves

tracked Percy hargreaves 1866 but no clues there.

Explains why not with family 1881

1881 England Census
about Frances Thompson
Name: Frances Thompson
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: Mostyn, Flintshire, Wales

Civil parish: Tynemouth
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England

Street Address: 2 Northd Terrace
Condition as to marriage: Married


Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Isabella Gee 48
Mary H. Gee 24
Jane Gee 24
Annie Gee 20
Robert H. Gee 18
Thomas Gee 17
John R. Gee 15
Arthur H. Gee 13
Edith H. Gee 12
Frances Thompson 37
Louisa B. Thompson 6
Mary Robinson 20
Margaret Hall

Little bit more on 1861
he is living with a Davies family in llanasa.
OH has Davies in Llanasa.
So does Madmeg. must get her on here too.

1861 Wales Census
about Thomas Wm Thompson
Name: Thomas Wm Thompson
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1840
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: London City

Civil Parish or Township: Llanasa
County/Island: Flintshire
Country: Wales


Registration district: Holywell
Sub-registration district: Whitford
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 139
Household Members: Name Age
Margaret Davies 51
Richard Davies 31
Thomas Wm Thompson



Richard is a master mariner

Marriages Sep 1861 Davies Frances Holywell 11b 377
Thompson Thomas William Holywell 11b 377

Hmmm but why Hargreaves in census?

This is a possible death for frances so that would not be them 1891

Deaths Jun 1888 (>99%)

THOMPSON Frances 44 Wirral 8a 260

1891 England Census
about Thomas Thompson
Name: Thomas Thompson
Age: 52
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Frances
Gender: Male
Where born: Over, Cheshire, England

Civil parish: Over
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: Over
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England



Registration district: Northwich
Sub-registration district: Over
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Thompson 52
Frances Thompson 56
Fanny Thompson 15


Found this but not yet aware of child fanny
Definitely not this one.

I still need to confirm this though.

I have not found a census with his wife on it although he has chidren.

If Frances Hargreaves 1871 census is his wife did they marry? Presumably 2nd marriage/

How did Frances Davies become Frances Hargreaves and what happened to her?

Thomas William Thompson was born before April 1840 at Middlesex. He was the son of Thomas Thompson and Sophia Elizabeth Ball.

Name: Thomas William Thompson
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 28 Jul 1839
Father's Name: Thomas Thompson
Mother's Name: Sophia Elizabeth Thompson
Parish: St Dunstan in the East
Borough: City of London
County: London
75 great tower street
licensed victualler

1841 Address: Tower Street, Great, St Dunstan In The East, London
THOMPSON, Thomas M 35 1806
THOMPSON, Sophia Eh F 30 1811 Middlesex
THOMPSON, Loueisa F 7 1834 Middlesex
THOMPSON, Thomas William M 2 1839 Middlesex
THOMPSON, Elizabeth F 55 1786 Middlesex
THOMPSON, Dorather Foster F 20 1821 Middlesex
POWELL, Elizabeth F 20 1821 Middlesex
WARD, John M 17 1824 Middlesex

1851 census - household transcription
Person: THOMPSON, Thomas Wm
Institution: Christ's Hospital,
THOMPSON, Thomas Wm Scholar Unmarried M 11 1840
London
Middlesex

1861 census - address transcription
Address: Mostyn Quay, Picton
THOMPSON, Thomas Wm Lodger Unmarried M 21 1840 Colliery Cl
London

1871Address: Sutton Village, Little Sutton
THOMPSON, Thomas Wm Head M 31 1840 Middlesex
THOMPSON, Margaret Annie Daughter F 6 1865 Lancashire
THOMPSON, Richard E Son M 1 1870 Cheshire
HARGRAVES, Percy J Visitor M 5 1866 Cheshire
HARGRAVES, Frances Wife F 27 1844 Flintshire
HUGHES, Jane G Servant F 22 1849 Anglesey
BRISLIN, Hannah Servant F 20 1851 Lancashire

Thomas William Thompson appeared on the 1881 census at The Vines, Lower Bebington, Cheshire. Thomas William Thompson, head, married, 41, Ferry proprietor, steam boat owner, born London; children - Sophia E 9, Maria G 8, Lilian C 3, all born at New Ferry, Cheshire, plus 2 servants and a book keeper.


1881 Address: The Vines, Lower Bebington
THOMPSON, Thomas W Head Married M 41 1840 Ferry Propriotor Steam Boat Owner
London, London
Middlesex
THOMPSON, Sophia E Daughter Single F 9 1872 Scholar
New Ferry
Cheshire
THOMPSON, Maria G Daughter Single F 8 1873 Scholar
New Ferry
Cheshire
THOMPSON, Lilian C Daughter Single F 3 1878
New Ferry
Cheshire
EVANS, Jane Servant Single F 23 1858 Cook (Dom)
Ruabon
Denbighshire
Wales
GREEN, Grace Servant Single F 23 1858 Housemaid
Liverpool
Lancashire
PARRY, Ellen W Servant Single F 18 1863 Nurse
Criccieth
Carmarthenshire
Wales
NICHOLLS, Martha E Visitor Single F 35 1846 Book Keeper (Clerk)
East Ham
Cheshire

I know his wife is Frances
cf
Name: Sophia Elizabeth Thompson
Gender: Female
Birth Date: abt 1871
Christening Date: 8 Nov 1871
Christening Place: Rock Ferry, Cheshire, England
Father's Name: Thomas Thompson
Mother's Name: Fenney Thompson

Again JC



Keep looking.

Maybe I could share some Smiths.